Arizona washes and streams conditions

[blackchipjim]

Hello all Arizona panners and sluicers this a general shout out to you. I'm going to be out in the Phoenix and surrounding areas the last week of November. Can you tell me if your stream or washes have the usual amount of water or are still dry or did it change. Thanks for any and all inputs in advance.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

No water in any of the washes. There are no streams. What we call a river here you probably know better as a dry sand and gravel operation. The few rivers that actually have some flowing water have no gold or no access.

If you are hunting for gold around Phoenix you will not have much luck where there is water. Metal detecting, dry washing, recirculation processing and hard rock are your choices.

Lots of gold - no water. It's a desert.

Heavy pans

 

[blackchipjim]

What the heck? Arizona had record rainfall in October. I would expect at least a little change in the washes or streams I have visited in the past. I guess I'll see if anything changed where I was before when I come back.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Average annual rainfall for Phoenix is about 9 inches. This year we might hit 10 inches. No records this year except in TV drama land.

An extra inch of rain means another four weeks of too wet to drywash. That means less gold per year not more.

We have a few members here that have gold producing claims with occasional running water. Maybe ask them how difficult it is to find gold and water in the same place around Phoenix.

If you are really hung up on the idea of sluicing and panning you can always drive a few hours north and get your toes wet at the public panning area on Lynx or Rose creeks in Prescott. Might be a bit cold and there is no guarantee there will be surface water but you will be able to get your pan wet with a little digging.

Wet season in Arizona is mid July to mid September. If you are crazy enough to stand in a wash when it's raining you might see enough water to float your sluice, car, tent and pan but that wash will be dry a few hours later.

Heavy Pans

 

[okbasspro]

Average annual rainfall for Phoenix is about 9 inches. This year we might hit 10 inches. No records this year except in TV drama land.

An extra inch of rain means another four weeks of too wet to drywash. That means less gold per year not more.

We have a few members here that have gold producing claims with occasional running water. Maybe ask them how difficult it is to find gold and water in the same place around Phoenix.

If you are really hung up on the idea of sluicing and panning you can always drive a few hours north and get your toes wet at the public panning area on Lynx or Rose creeks in Prescott. Might be a bit cold and there is no guarantee there will be surface water but you will be able to get your pan wet with a little digging.

Wet season in Arizona is mid July to mid September. If you are crazy enough to stand in a wash when it's raining you might see enough water to float your sluice, car, tent and pan but that wash will be dry a few hours later.

Heavy Pans

Hard Very Hard

 

[blackchipjim]

Funny how the media can make things seem different than reality. I have to ask a lot of questions since I'm so far away. I stay with my wife's relatives when I come out to Phoenix and rent a truck. I have been to different areas west and north of Phoenix. I have been researching another area north and will have a ball prospecting out there for week. Thanks all of you guys for all the help and info you lend to us greenhorns.

 

[okbasspro]

Funny how the media can make things seem different than reality. I have to ask a lot of questions since I'm so far away. I stay with my wife's relatives when I come out to Phoenix and rent a truck. I have been to different areas west and north of Phoenix. I have been researching another area north and will have a ball prospecting out there for week. Thanks all of you guys for all the help and info you lend to us greenhorns.

When you going? If in February I may be able to accommodate you for some mining ⛏ on my claim.

 

[blackchipjim]

Hey okbasspro I appreciate the offer but I'm going to be there the day after thanksgiving for a week. I'm going in for surgery after I get back and might still be off from work in February. I was looking to help someone and learn more from them in the process. I might just take another vacation in February and take you up on it. Keep in touch.

 

[okbasspro]

Hey okbasspro I appreciate the offer but I'm going to be there the day after thanksgiving for a week. I'm going in for surgery after I get back and might still be off from work in February. I was looking to help someone and learn more from them in the process. I might just take another vacation in February and take you up on it. Keep in touch.

Sounds good you can pan sluice or highbank we can’t dredge until issue with BLM wanting a NOI and reclamation bond gets solved. They want $1900 bond to just run a small dredge. I refuse to enter into a contract with them idiots.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Sounds good you can pan sluice or highbank we can’t dredge until issue with BLM wanting a NOI and reclamation bond gets solved. They want $1900 bond to just run a small dredge. I refuse to enter into a contract with them idiots.

You don't need a bond okbasspro. Just ignore what that prospecting club is saying, if it was up to them nobody could do anything up there but them. Here is the actual BLM regulation straight from the government pertaining to dredging (scroll down to § 3809.5):

§ 3809.5 How does BLM define certain terms used in this subpart?

As used in this subpart, the term:

Casual use means activities ordinarily resulting in no or negligible disturbance of the public lands or resources. For example -

(1) Casual use generally includes the collection of geochemical, rock, soil, or mineral specimens using hand tools; hand panning; or non-motorized sluicing. It may include use of small portable suction dredges. It also generally includes use of metal detectors, gold spears and other battery-operated devices for sensing the presence of minerals, and hand and battery-operated drywashers. Operators may use motorized vehicles for casual use activities provided the use is consistent with the regulations governing such use ( part 8340 of this title), off-road vehicle use designations contained in BLM land-use plans, and the terms of temporary closures ordered by BLM.

That rule goes back to year 2002. It's still current, here is the publication in the official Federal Register clarifying that motorized drywashing and dredging are "casual use" with no need for an NOI or bond.

Casual Use

Several comments on the March 23, 2001, proposed rule from persons who engage in small scale placer mining objected to the definition of “casual use” in the 2000 rule allowing employment of only hand or battery-powered dry washers as casual use. Many recreational miners use dry washers powered by small gasoline motors that are roughly equivalent to lawn mower motors. The comments said that this definition would bar these miners from using public lands for their activities due to the cost of either having to file a plan of operations or acquiring battery-powered drywashers. In this rule we propose to amend the definition of “casual use” to accommodate this use of small motorized drywashers (under 10 horsepower) that cause negligible disturbance. To ensure that such disturbances are negligible, we propose a 10-horsepower engine limit. The use of drywashers powered by motors of less than 10 horsepower would be considered casual use. The use of any drywasher powered by an engine with 10 or more horsepower would not be casual use. This change was not included in today's final rule.

Today's final rule contains the same language as the 2000 rule, which in turn was consistent with the 1980 regulations, which stated that casual use does not include the use of “mechanized earth-moving equipment.” However, the purpose of this change is to reflect BLM's agreement with comments that said that the disturbance created by these small drywashers, largely used by individual recreational miners, is negligible in most areas, and thus should qualify as casual use. This type of dry washing activity would be unfairly burdened under the 2000 rule, under which all activities that are not classified as casual use must file a plan of operations and a bond. Since these portions of the 2000 rule have been retained, this change to the casual use definition corresponds to a similar 2000 rule treatment of some small suction dredgers, and is not significantly different in its impacts from those corresponding provisions analyzed in the Environmental Impact Statement alternative that would have retained the 1980 regulations.

Casual use never requires a bond or notice. The club is quoting a regulation that only applies to states with a dredge permit system approved by a BLM agreement. Arizona has no laws, regulations or permits for dredging so that regulation doesn't apply.

Some folks here and elsewhere who don't dredge or prospect enjoy drama more than facts. Several of those people are in the club spreading this misinformation. Others just post on prospecting forums for fun. That's all cool if you like drama but if you just want to dredge some gold in Arizona ignore those people. You've had other encounters with those folks so I know you know what I'm saying.

It's still out there and you can still dredge for it in Arizona - go get u sum!

Heavy Pans

 

[okbasspro]

Thanx Clay I was gonna wait until it all shook out. When I looked up the 3809.5 I found what you quoted but the Az. BLM site lists it as saying suction dredging is not casual use. I do know that they have been known to give out bad information. I also wondered why there was not more being said about it. I also wonder how the club got a notice and I didn’t. I see the BLM guys every time I go they drive down see us and just wave and keep going.

 

[Mine Shaft]

If you can locate a natural spring that might do the trick. Good luck.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thanx Clay I was gonna wait until it all shook out. When I looked up the 3809.5 I found what you quoted but the Az. BLM site lists it as saying suction dredging is not casual use. I do know that they have been known to give out bad information. I also wondered why there was not more being said about it. I also wonder how the club got a notice and I didn’t. I see the BLM guys every time I go they drive down see us and just wave and keep going.

I don't know that the club did get a notice from the BLM okbasspro. All I've seen is the silly notice they sent out to their members. That particular club has gotten themselves in several binds applying for NOIs and Bonds when not required. I suspect this is the same thing again.

Heavy Pans

 

[blackchipjim]

Good morning all, well I was surprised to go back to one of the washes i was in last year. I was surprised to see how much erosion had occurred in the wash. I've seen videos of washes and streams being inundated with water and respect it's power. The boulders that were landmarks of the wash were buried in sands and the tops being only visible. The whole aspect of the wash was changed. The sides were deeply cut out now and new embankments were form where non were before. The debris fields that were formed were amazing to say the least. I can hardly wait to go back and do more exploring in these washes.