Arizona Indian Artifact Search

[kneelingwarrior]

Anybody having luck in North Central Arizona? I am new to this stuff. GO

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

everytime i make this post i get grief....

go ahead an search, you'll be lucky not to be arrested and everything you own seized by the government.

if you are only LOOKING, PHOTOGRAPHING, i have many areas of interest.

do read arizona laws on artifact collecting.

or ignore me and spend time in prison.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,245424.0.html

 

[kneelingwarrior]

Help me. Hiking in Arizona . . . one finds something on the path or a surface. Ramifications here?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the law says you can pick it up...handle it..photograph, and put it back in the spot you found it...exactly in the spot.

now...that said...sometimes one will find an object...evident it will be destroyed if it is not removed...edge of the cliff sort of thing...
it is still illegal to remove it...but...people have been known to 'save' a piece.

take a trip over to walnut canyon, examine the damage to those ruins, talk to the rangers...it will save you much trouble in the long run.
the rattles in my avatar were returned to the natives, and i found those at an auction...education on this subject will save you many unwanted interviews with nasty guys with badges and guns.

go check out the bull pen...see if you can find the ruins...huge complex.

 

[creek astronaut]

the law says you can pick it up...handle it..photograph, and put it back in the spot you found it...exactly in the spot.

now...that said...sometimes one will find an object...evident it will be destroyed if it is not removed...edge of the cliff sort of thing...
it is still illegal to remove it...but...people have been known to 'save' a piece.

take a trip over to walnut canyon, examine the damage to those ruins, talk to the rangers...it will save you much trouble in the long run.
the rattles in my avatar were returned to the natives, and i found those at an auction...education on this subject will save you many unwanted interviews with nasty guys with badges and guns.

go check out the bull pen...see if you can find the ruins...huge complex.

let me see if i understand this,you cant surface hunt for ancient indian artifacts ANYWHERE in arizona?if thats the case what is the reasoning behind the law?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

i did not create the law, nor was i consulted.
it is because of looters...pure and simple...the advent of the sante fe rail road through arizona brought an influx of looters with easy access. and an escape route.

arizona ruins were pilfered to the point that something had to be done to save what hadn't been stolen...unlike the east, with it's flora and detritus cover feet deep, things in arizona are still visible...
and if i read the antiquities act correctly...it should be the same across the states...why there is no enforcement back east is beyond my comprehension.



http://press.nationaltrust.org/content/view/33/70/

 

[creek astronaut]

i understand the federal laws protecting burial grounds etc...,and i also understand that you cant surface collect on federal property, and on state lands it is all dependent on the state you are in.i should have worded my question a little better,is it ok to surface hunt and dig on private property in arizona?thats what i meant when i said ANYWHERE in arizona.kneelingwarrior didnt mention if he was on private or public property.And just a little FYI,the federal laws are observed out east,have heard of many getting arrested for surface hunting on federal and state lands.thanks for replying to my question pippinwhitepaws.

 

[SoIll]

There's a state I'll never visit.

 

[naturegirl]

This seems to be a gray area depending on where you live, and how much you tell people about what you find. I understand both sides, and since we live in a democracy, thank goodness, it'll probably take a long time to sort out. I thought it was really interesting in another thread someone from Europe explained how everything "belongs to the King" my para-phrasing, and this person expressed pride in handing over his found object because it helps preserve that country's heritage. I can understand that. But I thought about our heritage, which is freedom. The thought of every "found" thing belonging to the government is well... we're Americans, so I feel safe in saying we would reject that wholeheartedly. BUT what about preserving the past of this land, and the Native Americans? I can understand that also. I think this question will be resolved someday, but for those of us who love to find things, it may be a bittersweet ending. The more I read and learn, maybe the less said is best, but it's so much fun sharing!

naturegirl

 

[Tnmountains]

I would have to think if you were on private property and owned all mineral rights etc and had permission from landowner state or federal law could not apply. I believe that the law reads......................

Illegal Goods
A series of laws passed in 1906, 1966, 1979, and 1992 forbid the taking of Native American artifacts from federal land, including national forests, parks and Bureau of Land Management land, unless granted a permit to do so.

So since federal law over rules state law, state land would not be available for artifact collecting either.
Pretty sure with GOOGLE you may find your answers on private land for artifact hunting.

Interesting that this thread comes up first in google search with this query (Arizona law hunting artifacts).
An Anasazi pot with a kill hole would be considered a grave good and any grave excavations is illegal so having that pot may be considered illegal.
My advice is learn the laws and know "where" you can hunt.
I am sure there are places in Arizona where you may collect artifacts.

 

[DesertWalker]

Yes, we are restricted, although they call it "public land". What started out to be a civil law, has become a criminal law, reinforced by several laws to insure that the "man" can see some probable cause and further destroy our rights under the constitution. I always advise to know where you are at, and hunt on private property, with permission. Good luck and happy hunting!

Dave

 

[Neanderthal]

ARPA (archaeological resources and protection act) 1979 is the law that pretty much sums up what you can do legally, federally. There is a line in there that protects hunters from picking up arrowheads, here it is (section 6, G) under prohibited acts and criminal penalties -

" (g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shell be deemed applicable to any person with respect to the removal of arrowheads located on the surface of the ground. "

This is what's known as the "Jimmy Carter Clause". The president was a collector himself and it's rumored that he was instrumental in this line being added to ARPA.

You can read the full ARPA 1979 (and Nagpra) here - http://arrowheads1.com/artifactinfo/artifactinfo.shtml

There has been precedence where a person has used the "JCC" to get out of a fine. A hunter was ticketed for hunting a state lake (Tenkiller) and got out of it.

With that said, I don't recommend hunting on ANY state land, parks, etc. You will be trying to pit federal vs. state laws, which is never a good thing. Even if you were to win (by some chance), you would most likely expend great amounts of money and time trying to do so.

 

[oldgoat]

You are right, pippin, you always take a beating when you post that law, but I wouldn't quit...I didn't know is not a credible defense in front of the judge...

 

[RGINN]

So here's a question. If I'm Indun, excuse me, Indian, and I'm coming along the trail one day and I see a Clovis point, and say "Oh crap, grandpa must have dropped this, I better get it and save it for him." So could I go to jail just because I'm picking up things my forgetful ancestors lost? They would probably say "Cool grandson, thank you for finding it for me. I ain't here and I don't need it right now, but you hang onto it!" That might be an interesting thing to come up in court one day, you think?

 

[Tnmountains]

So here's a question. If I'm Indun, excuse me, Indian, and I'm coming along the trail one day and I see a Clovis point, and say "Oh crap, grandpa must have dropped this, I better get it and save it for him." So could I go to jail just because I'm picking up things my forgetful ancestors lost? They would probably say "Cool grandson, thank you for finding it for me. I ain't here and I don't need it right now, but you hang onto it!" That might be an interesting thing to come up in court one day, you think?

They would say clovish smovish 5-6 years hard time . Of course they would confiscate your truck and your land first sell that and keep the money then send your kids to be raised by the state and start you, on your own, trail of fear.
Someone please tell me I am wrong?? I mean didnt a judge just rule in Fla that American treasure hunters had no right to treasure found in International waters and that the treasure belonged to Spain?? (treasure salvors i think)

 

[klodhopper]

It IS legal in Arizona to surface collect on your own PRIVATE property~Secure permission from landowners and be up front about your reason for wanting to gain access to privately owned lands. Neither the State, universities, museums, or Feds have the right to confiscate a collection from, force an excavation on, or prevent you from farming or using private lands if there is an archaeological site present>>. This is a common misconception.<< About the only situation that may involve land-use restrictions is the presence of human burials.

 

[2screwed]

According to this you can collect arrowheads, bottles and coins in Arizona on state lands:

41-841. Archaeological and vertebrate paleontological discoveries

A. On lands owned or controlled by this state or any agency of this state a person shall not knowingly excavate in or upon any historic or prehistoric ruin, burial ground, archaeological or vertebrate paleontological site, or site including fossilized footprints, inscriptions made by human agency or any other archaeological, paleontological or historical feature, except when acting as a duly authorized agent of an institution or corporation referred to in section 41-842.

B. On lands owned or controlled by this state or any agency of this state a person shall not knowingly collect any archaeological specimen or vertebrate paleontological specimen without obtaining a permit authorizing the activity as provided under section 41-842. For the purpose of this subsection, "archaeological specimen" means any item resulting from past human life or activities which is at least one hundred years old including petroglyphs, pictographs, paintings, pottery, tools, ornaments, jewelry, textiles, ceremonial objects, weapons, armaments, vessels, ships, vehicles and human skeletal remains. Archaeological specimen does not include arrowheads, coins or bottles.

To read more go to Chapter 4.1 Article 4 here:

Arizona Revised Statutes

And as stated earlier in this thread it is legal to collect arrowheads found on the surface of federal lands

16 U.S.C. 470ee(g),
Removal of arrowheads
located on
ground surface
(g) Nothing in subsection (d) of this section shall be deemed
applicable to any person with respect to the removal of
arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.

ARPA of 1979 can be seen here. (Read page 7 to find the information above.):

http://www.nps.gov/history/local-law/FHPL_ArchRsrcsProt.pdf

 

[Park Ranger]

Removing arrowheads from federal land is illegal. In 16 U.S.C. it is only stating that you are not subject to the fines and imprisonment stated in that section. However it is still illegal under
36 CFR (Code of Federal Regulations)
2.1
Preservation of natural, cultural and archeological resources.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the following is prohibited:
(1) Possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, digging, or disturbing from its natural state:
(i) Living or dead wildlife or fish, or the parts or products thereof, such as antlers or nests.
(ii) Plants or the parts or products thereof.
(iii) Nonfossilized and fossilized paleontological specimens, cultural or archeological resources, or the parts thereof.
(iv) A mineral resource or cave formation or the parts thereof.
(2) Introducing wildlife, fish or plants, including their reproductive bodies, into a park area ecosystem.
(3) Tossing, throwing or rolling rocks or other items inside caves or caverns, into valleys, canyons, or caverns, down hillsides or mountainsides, or into thermal features.
(4) Using or possessing wood gathered from within the park area: Provided, however, That the superintendent may designate areas where dead wood on the ground may be collected for use as fuel for campfires within the park area.
(5) Walking on, climbing, entering, ascending, descending, or traversing an archeological or cultural resource, monument, or statue, except in designated areas and under conditions established by the superintendent.
(6) Possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, digging, or disturbing a structure or its furnishing or fixtures, or other cultural or archeological resources.
(7) Possessing or using a mineral or metal detector, magnetometer, side scan sonar, other metal detecting device, or subbottom profiler.
This paragraph does not apply to:
(i) A device broken down and stored or packed to prevent its use while in park areas.
(ii) Electronic equipment used primarily for the navigation and safe operation of boats and aircraft.
(iii) Mineral or metal detectors, magnetometers, or subbottom profilers used for authorized scientific, mining, or administrative activities.
(b) The superintendent may restrict hiking or pedestrian use to a designated trail or walkway system pursuant to §§ 1.5 and 1.7. Leaving a trail or walkway to shortcut between portions of the same trail or walkway, or to shortcut to an adjacent trail or walkway in violation of designated restrictions is prohibited.
(c) (1) The superintendent may designate certain fruits, berries, nuts, or unoccupied seashells which may be gathered by hand for personal use or consumption upon a written determination that the gathering or consumption will not adversely affect park wildlife, the reproductive potential of a plant species, or otherwise adversely affect park resources.
(2) The superintendent may:
(i) Limit the size and quantity of the natural products that may be gathered or possessed for this purpose; or
(ii) Limit the location where natural products may be gathered; or
(iii) Restrict the possession and consumption of natural products to the park area.
(3) The following are prohibited:
(i) Gathering or possessing undesignated natural products.
(ii) Gathering or possessing natural products in violation of the size or quantity limits designated by the superintendent.
(iii) Unauthorized removal of natural products from the park area.
(iv) Gathering natural products outside of designated areas.
(v) Sale or commercial use of natural products.
(d) This section shall not be construed as authorizing the taking, use or possession of fish, wildlife or plants for ceremonial or religious purposes, except where specifically authorized by Federal statutory law, treaty rights, or in accordance with § 2.2 or § 2.3.

This is specific to the National Park Service the National Forest Service has a similar law located in the 36 CFR section below

§ 296.4
Prohibited acts and criminal penalties.
(a) Under section 6(a) of the Act, no person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface, or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under § 296.8 or exempted by § 296.5(b) of this part.
(b) No person may sell, purchase, exchange, transport, or receive any archaeological resource, if such resource was excavated or removed in violation of:
(1) The prohibitions contained in paragraph (a) of this section; or
(2) Any provision, rule, regulation, ordinance, or permit in effect under any other provision of Federal law.
(c) Under section (d) of the Act, any person who knowingly violates or counsels, procures, solicits, or employs any other person to violate any prohibition contained in section 6 (a), (b), or (c) of the Act will, upon conviction, be fined not more than $10,000.00 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both: provided, however, that if the commercial or archaeological value of the archaeological resources involved and the cost of restoration and repair of such resources exceeds the sum of $500.00, such person will be fined not more than $20,000.00 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. In the case of a second or subsequent such violation upon conviction such person will be fined not more than $100,000.00, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
[49 FR 1027, Jan. 6, 1984, as amended at 60 FR 5260, Jan. 26, 1995]



My Suggestion to everyone is do not take the legal advice from someone on this board it will not save you in court. If you want to know the rules and regulations for a section of land under federal law call that federal agency and ask them the specific rules and laws for that area. In the end it will save you a lot of troubles, headaches, and money.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

As stated above on Federal land follow the laws....

A word to the wise..
...Any personal attacks on Ranger will be handled just like an attack on any member here so keep that in mind unless you need a break from TN.

Welcome to TreasureNet Ranger....

 

[Get-the-point]

First and for-most welcome to the Forum Ranger. Although we all treasure history the proper preservation of it is such an essential part of the process. Now I do agree with some of the Laws pertaining to the preservation of park land but I do not agree with the Park Service ideology of rogue surface finds and washed out river banks leaving the artifacts at the edge of oblivion(the river) soon never to be seen by man again!! This is a tragedy and must be remedied! I have multiple suggestions I was planning on introducing to the Dept. of Interior to try and change that.

Treasure Hunter to say that to everyone here before it happened was assumptive to say the least. I think we members respect this forum and what people have to say whether it right, wrong or indifferent we respect all posts. Some might have attacked him but i doubt it because most members here show a bit of class and tact with there replies. Not to mention other members like myself would have stopped the attacks if it should have happened. Just figured I would put that out there.........