Are these PCGS $50 gold eagles counterfeit?

[insontis]

I purchased these online and I am highly concerned that either is legitimate.

First and foremost, I haven't purchased any $50 gold eagles before. My knowledge is what I've researched online in the last half hour and it has been inconclusive thus far. I should also note that I purchased these from ebay and should not have a problem returning them should they prove counterfeit, so I'm not worried there.

Let's start with the facts:

Similarities and good news
The coins are both slabbed, both have PCGS numbers that match the correct coin types/years. One is a 1991-W and the other is a 1989-W. Both are graded PR69DCAM and appear to be without any scratches and have a nice cameo and appear to have


1989 PCGS cert #: 9835.69/72743038
1991 PCGS cert #: 9855.69/72709196

Questionable/bad news
The coins in their slabs have two different weights. The 1991 weighs 65.0 grams. The 1989 weighs 63.8 grams. Also, the 1989 has some orange-like "watermarks", for lack of a better term, scattered across both sides of the coin. The 1991 appears to have a similar type mark on the reverse on the eagles wing. The 1991 appears to be more "yellow gold" in general compared to the 1989. This is specifically noticeable when comparing the cameo effect. The 1989 appears lighter/"whiter".

I'll get pictures uploaded shortly, but hopefully someone has some feedback in regards to what I've mentioned. I'm not sure if being improperly stored or being exposed to different elements would cause any of the discoloration effects or not. If anything stands out as a definitive mark of a fake, please let me know!

 

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[insontis]

Added pictures now. Much easier than trying to explain at all in hindsight..

 

[masterjedi]

Get a hold of PCGS and see if they really graded these coins... good luck!

 

[gordonquixote]

Wouldn't PCGS keep a record of the individual numbers?

Also, if you google the numbers and get multiple hits it would be a red flag.

For example, many fake rolex have the same serial number so go ogling the number in a dead giveaway.

 

[Texas T]

1989 PCGS cert #: 9835.69/72743038
1991 PCGS cert #: 9855.69/72709196

CERT VERIFICATION #72743038
According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

PCGS Coin Information
PCGS # 9835
Date, mintmark 1989-W
Denomination $50
Variety Gold Eagle
Country The United States of America
Grade PR69DCAM
Holder Type Standard
Population
3,934
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $1,700



CERT VERIFICATION #72709196
According to the PCGS Certification Database, the requested certification number is defined as the following:

PCGS Coin Information
PCGS # 9855
Date, mintmark 1991-W
Denomination $50
Variety Gold Eagle
Country The United States of America
Grade PR69DCAM
Holder Type Standard
Population
4,204
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $1,627

 

[baddbluff]

I'd be a little worried about the toning - gold is pretty non reactive and doesn't tone very easily. It could've toned in the holder after grading, but there's no way PCGS would give it that grade with that tone.
I'm not sure about the weight. I guess there could be variation in the weight of the holders.
I would take them to a reputable dealer & get their opinion. Or you could take them to a big show (like the ANA show in Anaheim coming up) and ask PCGS in person.

 

[insontis]

Thank you for the feedback. The main problem with the pcgs case and cert number is that both can be faked. I've read there have been instances of fabricated/fake pcgs cases housing counterfeit coins with real certification numbers that match the type of coin. I'll check to see if any of the certification numbers pop up on online for any other coins. I guess the toning and weight are the two main concerns. Anyone have pcgs housed eagles they could compare weight to? I tried searching for this online, but didnt have any luck.

I'll try contacting pcgs in the morning and take the coins to a dealer. Just wanted to see if the toning or weight was an obvious sign of a fake or not.

 

[insontis]

I contacted PCGS and while I didn't get any definitive answers, they did mention its possible that moisture entered the case if they were not airtight for about a year or longer and this could be the reasoning behind the marks. They didn't give an answer about the weight, only mentioning the variation could be possible with older cases. I sent an email as well to hopefully get a response to the photographs, but in the meantime I'll find a dealer to take them to. Obviously it'd be bad to hold onto them thinking they are real, but also if I were to pass them onto someone else.. I'd want to be certain they are legitimate.

 

[cudamark]

Real or fake, I'd return them since they don't make the grade. Of course, that will depend on what you paid for them! They're still worth bullion price, but, not much more IMO. If I were putting them into a collection, I'd want better quality.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

 

[coinsareawesome]

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[insontis]

I know this is coming up on a year old post, but it bugged me that I never went back with how the story ended along with a few details that I had left out.

Firstly, they ended up being real - so anyone that runs into gold coins with such markings on them should not feel obligated to avoid them like the plague. I took them to a coin dealer and he looked them over and without a doubt said he would purchase them right then and there for I think either spot (1300) or above spot at $1350 (can't remember).

Real or fake, I'd return them since they don't make the grade. Of course, that will depend on what you paid for them! They're still worth bullion price, but, not much more IMO. If I were putting them into a collection, I'd want better quality.

Which leads me back to what I had originally paid for them on eBay... $900 a piece.

So, being into them for $1800, and being the less-than-millionaire that I am, I had to flip them one way or another. Before I had them authenticated, I had a buyer offer me $1400 cash for one. I told him I'd consider it and informed him of the situation. Well, after I was assured of their authenticity, I made back $1400 bucks off of the 1991.

This left me with the 1989 - my birth year. I hated the idea of having to sell it, so what I did was a sort of compromise. I sold that 1989 for $1000 to my Dad, who will hold onto it for me. I did make $100 off the buying price - plus what he paid me in was uncirculated $2 bills and presidential $1 rolls. In the end I came out $600 ahead and still have an eagle with my name on it.

 

[Mackaydon]

insontis,
Reads like a Win-Win situation. Congrats !!
Don.....

 

[wagbert]

I must have missed your original post, but you had some very good questions and concerns. As I read on, I appreciate your follow-up post. $1800 is still a piece of change! Good for you on making a profit and making your Dad happy too.