Are ELE & Co. CW era?

[Bigcypresshunter]

Are ELE & Co. CW era?

I purchased 10 buttons from eBay including 4 small E.L.E. & CO. LONDON. I found the backmark with a crown but I cant find this exact mark. Maybe because its so small. The fluke is behind the wing.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

Here is the closest match I could find on "The Civil War Relicman,
Harry Ridgeway."

http://www.relicman.com/buttons/zArchiveButtonFederalNavy2pc1840HorizontalAnchor.htm

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

From the newest edition (2006) of the book "American Military Button Makes & Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates" by William F. McGuinn and Bruce S. Bazelon... quoting:
"E.L.E. & Co./London" (with crown) -- Unknown firm but die was in Scovill inventory. Unknown dates & firm but appears to be late-1860's-1870's. B[ack]/m[ark] on [Albert] NA-113, FD-11A1 (1870s [US] Revenue Cutter Service, OC-4Bv, unl[isted], and NA-113, 17mm, no crown. Listed in Scovill back-die file, c[irca] 1875."

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

From the newest edition (2006) of the book "American Military Button Makes & Dealers; Their Backmarks & Dates" by William F. McGuinn and Bruce S. Bazelon... quoting:
"E.L.E. & Co./London" (with crown) -- Unknown firm but die was in Scovill inventory. Unknown dates & firm but appears to be late-1860's-1870's. B[ack]/m[ark] on [Albert] NA-113, FD-11A1 (1870s [US] Revenue Cutter Service, OC-4Bv, unl[isted], and NA-113, 17mm, no crown. Listed in Scovill back-die file, c[irca] 1875."

All these numbers are hard for me because I dont have the book. Are any of these numbers you mention a US Navy flute behind wing?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

Here is a good button backmark list. http://www.buttoncrs.com/backmarks.html
E.L.E. & Co. London + crown. . Appears in Scovill back
die list as E.L.E.& Co. London.ABM. JR


Im still searching there are a lot of hits on this backmark. It appears that ELE & co london was used by both Scovill and D. Evans. For what reason, I do not know.
http://cwbullet.org/bullet-relic-forum/showthread.php?t=3797&page=1


These ELE buttons are very small about 14 mm. The S&J a bit larger.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

Besides the cuff, where would these tiny buttons be used?

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&+CO.+LONDON"+button&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Could this be it?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Are ELE & Co. CW era?

I searched through pages of ELE buttons which seem to be a common CW era US Navy backmark by an unknown firm. I cannot find one example of my 14mm button without crown backmark. The only mention is the 17mm die found at the Scovill factory and no mention that they were used on US navy eagles.. But I have 4 of them.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...+CO.+LONDON"+button&cd=23&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.icollector.com/US-NAVY-UNIFORM-CHAPEAU-WITH-orig-BOX-AND-GLOVES_i5323582

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BigCypressHunter wrote:
> All these numbers [NA-113, FD-11A1, etc] are hard for me because I dont have the book. Are any of these numbers you mention a US Navy flute behind wing?

Please pardon the lateness of this reply. I did not see your February 2012 post until now. The letters-&-numbers are Alphaeus Albert's button-book "code" for particular categories of buttons and versions of buttons in a category. For example, NA113 = US Navy, version #113. I do not believe Albert's button #NA-113 is an actual US Navy button, but instead is a Fashion button, for several reasons:
1- the rope doesn't pass through the anchor's ring
2- the eagle has the very-puffy-and-round breast and drumsticks seen on Fashion buttons but not on actual US Navy buttons
3- Albert always tells the backmark when a button has one, he gives no backmark for NA-113, and Fashion imitation-navy buttons typically (although not absolutely always) lack a backmark.

BigCypressHunter also wrote:
> Are any of these numbers you mention a US Navy flute behind wing?

NA-113 has the fluke in front of the wing. (The other buttons mentioned as having the "ELE & Co." backmark are not Navy buttons -- for example Albert button OC-4Bv is an Ordnance Corps button.)

BigCypresshunter also wrote:
> These ELE buttons are very small about 14 mm.
> Besides the cuff, where would these tiny buttons be used?
> I cannot find one example of my 14mm button without crown backmark.

The 14mm size is strictly for use on a kepi (hat) strap. Logic indicates the ELE & Co. backmark on those extremely small buttons lacks a crown simply due to extremely limited space for the backmark.

Becuase your post is now nearly a year old, the information may no longer be of any use to you... but I felt I should still give you the answers you asked for.