Anyone Recognize this bullet?

[dkw]

I've been reloading and casting for 25 years but this one has me stumped. I found two of these bullets today. The site was once a homesite but is nothing but pasture now. It dates from the mid-late 1800's. The bullets don't appear to me to be that old though.
It's hard to see in the pictures but they have corrosion spots similar to a zinc penny. They're a harder alloy than pure lead as well. There is a hollow cavity in the bottom. It seems too small to be there for the purpose of "bump up".

My first thought was 45 Colt although they don't match any I've seen.

The profile is round nose flat point
Weight 242.3, 242.4 grains
Diameter .457
OAL .713
The weapon had a left hand twist.


Any ideas?

 

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[strider]

 

[strider]

Have you found out yet how old it is and what weapon it was use in?

 

[ivan salis]

.455 british webley ?

 

[Monty]

Being hollow based I would guess it isn't designed for a lot of velocity. Also it appears to have two grease grooves and no crimp groove. My best guess would be a muzzle loader bullet or "minnie ball", the flat nose designed so the ramrod won't deform it when shoved down the bore. Monty

 

[junkdigger]

I believe your bullet was fired from a Colt revolver,chambered for the .45Colt cartridge. Colt revolvers had the left hand twist rifling. The nominal bullet diameter for .45 Colt is .454",but tolerances in those days were pretty loose,and .457 is only .003" off. If you measure that bullet several times around the base you will get .454 sometimes. The length or your bullet matches the length of the standard bullet. The standard bullet weighed 255 grains,and your bullet is only 242 grains. This can be from a variation in the alloy of your find. If you cast bullets you know how much lighter your bullets get when another 10% of tin is added. And,lastly,the cavity in your bullet matches the cavity of the old standard bullet.
I like to find old bullets,but have never found an old .45Colt. There is one around here somewhere for me to find! The Nez Perce war of 1877 was fought all around this area.

 

[Monty]

Quite possibly a Colt pistol bullet or a .45 caliber minnie ball. If a Colt pistol bullet it is quite old. If a .45 cal muzzleloading bullet it is fairly contemporary. What make me think it is a minnie ball is the absence of a crimping groove. Nearly all pistol bullets have a crimping groove if used in a cartridge case but I don't know about the early Colts. The older Colt bullets intended to use in a blackpowder revolver probably would not have a crimping groove. So, take your pick. History of the area would probably be the determining factor. Monty

 

[PLUMB50]

TO JUNKDIGGER!!!!!!!!! DANG!

 

[dkw]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I guess I should clarify things a little. Even though these bullets were found at an old site, I think they're fairly modern. I'm mainly curious as to the design of the bullet. The grooves look to me like crimping grooves instead of lube grooves. I'll try to get a good close up pic of them. The hard alloy and diameter "should" rule out a muzzleloader as the weapon. I first thought .45 Colt. Junkdigger seems to agree. I agree that the alloy will lighten the bullet. The original cartridges in my collection all have round nose bullets though. As for the hollow base, I don't know. I've never seen just the bullet of an original. I load for 2 .45 Colts but use a modern design. The bullets give me a consistent .457 to .4575 diameter through multiple measurements.
The .45 Colt is the most likely supplier of these. However the dual crimping grooves and caliber measurements make me wonder if they came from an "express" type load from a .45 rifle.

 

[dkw]

OK, Here's a close up of the grooves.

 

[Monty]

A hard alloy would make the bullet more likely a rifle bullet and I am fairly sure that modern black powder rifles denoted as "45 caliber" run in the .457" range. If indeed a rifle bullet, it should either be lubed or patched. The hollow base would be to facilitate a slight expansion of the "skirt" of the bullet to engage the lands and grooves of the barrell. Even a hard alloy bullet with a hollow base would expand to some degree under pressure. The grooves of a modern blackpowder rifle are fairly shallow and it wouldn't take much expansion to engage. Pistol bullets from the early era would almost certainly have been cast of pure lead. Those handcast at home should have evidence of a sprue mark on the nose of the bullet. I don't see one in the pictures. Monty