Anyone Recognize This 6" Clovis, ex. KW Brewer Anasazi Collection...

[OntarioArch]

Since it's not everyday you see For Sale a near perfect 6" Clovis point......I thought I would post some pics. It has a Breckinridge COA. Mr. Breckinridge confirmed to me via email that he did, in fact, paper this point.
The present owner / seller claims:
"Provenience (sic): Found by J.P Patterson in 1918.
Acquired as part of the KW Brewer Anasazi Collection (Of Pinedale,AZ) in 1977."

Care to guess the asking price? Just for fun? Aw, comon' .... stay 6 feet away from me take a guess!

 

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[The Grim Reaper]

$20,000

 

[Relicgrubber]

No Reserve Auction. Starting bid: $0.99

 

[tnmudman]

I'll go 25,000

 

[dognose]

Where did J.P Patterson find this? What state?

Is there any history from J.P Patterson to KW Brewer Anasazi Collection dispersal?

 

[Noah_D]

I don't know but I'd give a dollar for it.

 

[joshuaream]

My guess is the seller went for a much more reasonable haul hoping the buyer thinks they "stole it" for whatever price it was sold for. $2500 or less, if authentic that beast would be $25,000 or more.

I will give the original knapper credit, that's very skillful knapping. This differentiated flaking (smooth/rippled) comes from someone who has actually held/studied some casts or originals of large western clovis points one of the caches or from the bigger points from the Blackwater Draw site, or maybe some of the big St Louis style Clovis points. There are a couple of blended traits here.

 

[dirstscratcher]

My first question is what is the material, and where did Mr. Breckenridge get his comparison material for the testing. I so want to believe the process he uses is accurate, but I still don't see a lot of professional archys buying in.

 

[uniface]

in public . . .

 

[OntarioArch]

Where did J.P Patterson find this? What state?

Is there any history from J.P Patterson to KW Brewer Anasazi Collection dispersal?

No other history or location was posted; my very quick search turned up nothing....which made me suspicious. But it does have that Breckinridge COA...
Another fishy smell comes from the whole idea of selling a piece of this stature through a local CraigsList ad.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Looks like blond Dover flint. Gary

 

[joshuaream]

My first question is what is the material, and where did Mr. Breckenridge get his comparison material for the testing. I so want to believe the process he uses is accurate, but I still don't see a lot of professional archys buying in.

The number of large fluted points and rare hardstone bannerstones with his COA must mean that erosion has finally progressed to the point where previously ultra-rare items are now commonly found in significant numbers. I figure my odds of finding examples of each are now high enough that I don't need to buy them. Between Bannerstone Tom, Baker and Breckinridge, I think that broken field finds might actually more rare than g-10 points.

Here's a ultra-rare fluted, porphyry wing banner that sold for $140.

 

[Twitch]

My guess is the seller went for a much more reasonable haul hoping the buyer thinks they "stole it" for whatever price it was sold for. $2500 or less, if authentic that beast would be $25,000 or more.

I will give the original knapper credit, that's very skillful knapping. This differentiated flaking (smooth/rippled) comes from someone who has actually held/studied some casts or originals of large western clovis points one of the caches or from the bigger points from the Blackwater Draw site, or maybe some of the big St Louis style Clovis points. There are a couple of blended traits here.

View attachment 1825485

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In addition, the two flat spot towards the tip in this photo don’t look entirely correct. Strangely, the ‘patina’ on the base portion of the point looks typical of artificial aging. Not saying either trait is or isn’t a problem, but both present some red flags.

 

[Relicgrubber]

Don't get me started on why "Insight or Breckinridge COA's" are a last ditch try at a COA on fake artifacts...

 

[Quartzite Keith]

My guess is the seller went for a much more reasonable haul hoping the buyer thinks they "stole it" for whatever price it was sold for. $2500 or less, if authentic that beast would be $25,000 or more.

I will give the original knapper credit, that's very skillful knapping. This differentiated flaking (smooth/rippled) comes from someone who has actually held/studied some casts or originals of large western clovis points one of the caches or from the bigger points from the Blackwater Draw site, or maybe some of the big St Louis style Clovis points. There are a couple of blended traits here.

View attachment 1825485

Could you explain that in more detail. I see the difference you are talking about, but what causes it and what does it mean?

 

[OntarioArch]

The Clovis lists for $12,000.

But wait! It's Bonus Time!

Same seller has this pop-eye, porphyry birdstone for sale: "ex.Tom shenk collection" -- listed for only $52,000. Seriously.
No COA offered.

 

[monsterrack]

Could you explain that in more detail. I see the difference you are talking about, but what causes it and what does it mean?

JMO from what I have seen antler will give you the ripple effect when doing indirect percussion and copper will give you the scooped out look. Notice the edge work the edge with the ripple look as very little and the scooped out look looks to have more edge work.

 

[dognose]

Tom Shenk COA are as bad or worse than a Baker COA. IMO

 

[joshuaream]

Could you explain that in more detail. I see the difference you are talking about, but what causes it and what does it mean?

Nothing scientific here, just observational. It looks like the work of someone who has studied and made the Clovis tool kit more than many knappers have.

On a couple of the larger western Clovis points I have seen the overshot/outrepasse flaking from one side was partially erased by later flaking from the same side. It probably happened in different ways during the life cycle of a large clovis point, but later use and rework erased it on all but the large points. Even then it's usually only just a couple of matched flakes in the middle of the biface near & above the end of the flute channel, not the 6 or 7 sets you see here. Easily replicated by many knappers properly, and probably even easier to cheat if someone wanted to shortcut and make it look that way. But it's not something I see on normal ebay replicas.

Folsom, Eden, Clovis & Cumberland points to me are the easiest points to see if a knapper has studied ancient points and reduction strategies vs are just aiming for the final stage finished relic.

 

[joshuaream]

in public . . .

In public they'll probably just not even engage is a silly discussion.

Uni, even if some version of this fast, non-invasive, available to the common-man relative dating eventually pans-out and works, I don't think the guys churning out papers or the guy who sold them the methodology are going to be who archaeologists use... False prophets.

Here's a beauty of a Handheld Sandia with a Breckinridge COA. And literally stacks of nice points in the background.