Anyone know anything about antique silver 1815 Louis 18th silver french win sippers?

[karenfrance]

Hi treasure hunters.
Anyone know anything about an item I purchased from a market in Paris recently. It appears to be an 1815 silver french wine sipper but I am not really sure what it really is. I would love to know anything else about it & what/how it was used & any history it might have, value etc. I posted a similar notice a week or two ago but at that stage thought my item was only silver plated. I have since discovered a hall mark & it is very solid so I now think it is pure silver. I think it is a wine-sipper as that is what the old lady who sold it to me said it was, but perhaps it had another purpose?

The base has what appears to be a coin in it which says on the bottom UN DECIME 1815 BB surrounded by a laurel reath. The inside part of the coin also has a laural leaf with a large capital L with a crown on top. 1815 was the time of the french king Louis 18th I think? The cup part itself is round & approx 8.5cm across BUT it is very shallow & only 2cm deep. The handle is a curled thin snake & quite detailed & delightful.

I will try to attach a photo this time which may help you identify it a bit better, as my discription might be a tad confusing?! As I mentioned, ANY help to find out more about my mystery object would be hugely appreciated. Looking forward to any help & replys from some real experts out there.
Cheers, Karen.

 

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[Sentrom]

A very nice French silver "Tastevin", Wine Tasting Cup.

 

[Sentrom]

“Tastevin” Wine Tasting Cup was used by wine makers to check on the maturing process of the wine. The dimples on your wine tasting cup catch and reflect light to reveal the wine's true color and its clarity.

 

[karenfrance]

Thank you so much Sentrom. You are a star! It is so nice to finally know a bit more about it. I don't suppose anyone would know a rough value? I tried to google but at this stage without any success.

Again, thankyou, thankyou & thankyou!
Karen.

 

[pepperj]

Thank you so much Sentrom. You are a star! It is so nice to finally know a bit more about it. I don't suppose anyone would know a rough value? I tried to google but at this stage without any success.

Again, thankyou, thankyou & thankyou!
Karen.

Tastevin: Silver | eBay

 

[surf]

Hello Karen,

Symbolically it is the badge of office of Les chevaliers du Tastevin as well as the working tool of sommeliers world wide.

From.

 

[karenfrance]

Again, thanks to everyone who has helped me identify my 1815 silver Tastevin & find out a bit more about it. It is very exciting to have such an interesting object & we would love to find out more about the possible history. It seems to make me want to know even more so I would love to ask you experts if you can help me find out more.

Any idea what was happening in 1815 french politics? I think there was a lot of caos & power struggle with Napoleaon (which one? Original or his later nephew?) going on that year. I wonder if the royal coin in the Tastevin was linked to the Royalists in their support of Louis 18th? If so, how might the tastevin have fitted into the puzzle? Hold on to your hats...here come some more questions!

Does anyone happen to know any way I can identify if it was definately from the Burgundy? region or possibly another?
Why were coins used as the base for a lot of the Tastevins?
Who would have made them?
How did they make them?
How would people purchase them?
What class of people could afford them?
Were the winemakers of that time elite?
Were they the one's living in the fancy Chateau's?
What link did they have with the Royal family of the time?
Were the winemakers favorites of the Court & did they get any special privliges?
Anyone know about the hall-mark on the Tastevin? Or the quality etc?

Well, as you can see, I really need the help of some treasure-hunters to help us discover more.

Hugest thanks in anticipation.
Karen

 

[Harry_Morant]

Hi, looking at the photos and the wear on the item it appears to be plated to me. The coin can not be relied upon to date the item as it was common practice to graft these into the piece - all sorts of coins all sorts of dates. In 1815 French decimes were made out of bronze which does not match the silver appearance of yours. I think it is either a fantasy or plated.

If you can provide a clearer photo of the mark I should be able to get you more information

 

[karenfrance]

Thanks so much Harry. Actually, I was just coming to a similar sad conclusion. I can't seem to get a clearer photo of the mark but closer inspection shows it to be a raised six pointed star (without any dot in it) in a recessed rectangle. Your help is truly appreciated. You ARE a hero!

All the best,
Karen

 

[Sentrom]

In answer to your first question. Tastevins with coiled snake handles are typically associated with Bordeaux.

As for why they use a coin. I have a theory: Back in France a good master silversmith was able to produce an entire Tastevin with one Napoleon III 5-franc coin. They did this by using a series of different hammers to spread out and thin the coin, Then they used other tools to produce the decorations. You can weigh the Tastevin and if it weights exactly 32.5 grams, without the handle, then your tastevin might be one crafted by a French master silversmith. This being said, only the master built tastevin had the words “DIEU PROTEGE LA FRANCE” (“God protect France”) (which was on the coin) still showing on the Tastevin rim. Now I think the less-then-master silversmiths added a coin to the Tastevin to cash in on the prestige of the Master Silversmith. But also coins were added later to the bottoms as repairs to the Tastevin from wine sippers who never cleaned their Tastevins after use. The new reproductions use coins just for decorations.

 

[Harry_Morant]

The six pointed star was the assay symbol for Amiens in the 19th century. The French were actually quite detailed on where the mark was to be placed during this period - for instance the marks on a house bell was on the bell, the clapper and the handle - for wine tasters it was the rim and handle.

That said, a six pointed star has to be one of the easiest marks to make so I would be a bit dubious as to its actual worth to provide any real information. Take it to a local jeweller who should be able to tell you pretty quickly if it is plated. At the end of the day enjoy the item for what it is - don't regret what its not

 

[Sentrom]

Now if my memory serves me correctly, French Tastevins that were associated with royalty/nobility and ranking government officials if they had decorations at the bottom of the Tastevin it was in the form of a silver medal as opposed to a silver coin.

 

[karenfrance]

You guys have helped so much. Your really are great. I appreciate your thoughtful theory Sentrom about the coin usage. Can't seem to see any mark on the handle & I can see now that it is plated. I love your comment though Harry about enjoying it for what it is, not regret what it isn't. I am really grateful for that. At the end of the day, the coin itself was around during an incredible period in history & the item still holds much history & mystery.

I wonder, that if the posh winevins were given to winemakers as wedding presents, who would have used the cheaper ones? Would it have just been the poorer small winemakers or apprentices who didn't own large vineyards or chateaus? Or would it still have been an item for the elite, but just not quite so elite?!

Would it have been made in France or could it have been knocked out anywhere?

And regarding the coin, given that in 1815 France had Louis 18th, then Napoleon 1 & then for a short time Napoleon 2, then back to Louis 18th, were the coins minted all throughout the year? Where does the manufacture of the coin fit in with 1815?

Does it have any resale value & if so any idea what it might be worth?

Thanks again to you all.
Karen
P.S Sentrom, I like your hair!