Anybody want to trade for a BIG blade?

Cannonman17

Cannonman17

Bronze Member
Jul 16, 2006
1,558
35
Wisconsin
OKAY- so I didn't find it, anybody want to trade for it? (I made it) made from heat-treated Noviculite. If nobody wants the "fake" that's okay! I understand, just thought I would throw it up on here and share- took a lot of cut fingers and wasted hours to figure out how in the heck they did this!
 

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Making them is a big hobby with some people, unfortunately, many of them end up being sold as authentic ancient points to some collectors, not new reproductions.

Looks like you did a nice job.
 

Hmmm... maybe we should start a trend here. Take a permanent marker and write REPRO on the off side of it. If every knapper would do this, we wouldn't have any problems. Seems that even if you find a point on posted land in the middle of nowhere and "someone" thinks that just because they didn't find personally it, it was planted and must be a fake because it is a really nice point. You can't do any better than actually personally finding it to guarantee it's authenticity.

But on the other hand... if you are planting them, you probably would want people to think that they are real! LOL

So Cannonman... you feel like tossing all that hard work and bleeding fingers out in a posted field in Alabama where no one will ever look? LOL
;D ;D ;D

Nice job, I wish someone would SHOW me how to make one! I don't know anything about it. ??? ??? ???
 

I've never tried to pass any of mine off as real, but I haven't marked them in any way either- that is something that I should really think about doing. Most of the points I make are from exotic materials and most collectors would recognize them as being repros right away, even a point like this, though the material is authentic enough, there are a lot of broken off flakes at the end of the scars- they look white, an easy tell on a fake. I have always given them away to people who thought they were cool- always told them that I made them but that doesn't stop somebody down the road from not being so honest. I'm going to try and come up with a way to mark them that doesn't hurt the way they look- it's really the only right thing to do because I don't want any of mine to end up in a "real" collection some day.
 

How long did it take to make that, what an awesome job. Did you use deer antler to chip with? Every time I hold a point I wonder of the hands that made it and how long it took, how many tries bofore it was just right, how many were tossed because they broke half way through and the frustration of that. WOW and more WOW!
 

I used a fist sized rock for the percussion flaking and a deer antler for the pressure flaking. Doesn't really take that long to make one if you have good material... I'll take a guess and say this took me about 30-45 minutes to make. some of the gem points I make with real fine serrations and deep notches take a little bit longer.
 

Nice work Cannonman and you do it the old way. For what it's worth, I'm impressed. You can also use the base of an Elk Antler for the percussion work.

The vast majority of knappers today seem to have gone to using metal tools. This saves them a bit of time and also makes ID'ing them as reproductions much easier as under a loop you can see metal flakes in the stone. I was at a Historical Event this weekend and there were several knappers there. They were set up next to us and were turning out some excellent work using agatized coral and flint.

Most of the knappers I know are pretty up front about their work. There are always some however that can't seem to resist the temptation to pass their work off as authentic. Two of the best I've ever run into are out west and have been paying their bill for years with their points. They discovered the secret to creating real patina without using chemicals and unfortunately many large collections around the world have their work in them. They really are impossible to tell from the real thing.

Although I do Knapp, I enjoy carving petroglyph's into rock the most. I always have a case full of them for sale when we set up at powwows and other events. At one time, just for fun I decided to patina a few in the same way that the two previously mentioned knappers do. I always explain that I have carved these myself (I even have a typed out info sheet in the case explaining this) and have never tried to pass one off as authentic.

About 15 years ago I was set up at a gun show in Denver and had my petroglyph's out as I always did. Some of the patinaed ones were in the case also. A lady came up to the table that had purchased 3 of the patinaed ones a couple of weeks before at another show in Colorado Springs. Her husband was with her this time and they wanted a few more. The husband looked over the case and examined several with a loop, made his choices and handed me the money. As soon as I took it they produced their ID's and told me I was under arrest for violating a whole string on federal statutes concerning the stealing and selling of petroglyph's.

No amount of talk could convince them that I had made these myself as the ones purchased from me earlier had been examined by some lab and been deemed authentic (mainly because the patina was authentic). Anyway, right there in the gun show they read me my rights, cuffed me and confiscated everything on my table. My girl friend was laughing hysterically while I was trying to convince these two agents that they were making a really big mistake.

I did however get one concession from them. I told them that I could take them to my house, show them works in progress, and how they were patinaed. Anyway, after the visit to my house the two agents finally admitted that they were convinced that I had infact made the petroglyph's. They were particularly impressed with the way they had been patinaed. They even took me back to the show and helped me reset my table. The resulting publicity gave me the best show I had ever had up to that point and the following week the female agent bought several more from me for show and tell for her kids....lol.

I still don't mark my petroglyph's but I don't patina anymore of them either....lol. Have a good one.
Deepsix
 

Wow, that is scary. At least they helped you set your table back up- ;D I haven't ever tried to put any patina on any of mine, I don't see any point (pardon the pun) in it. I have in the past used metal to knapp with, a copper bopper for the percussion and a nail for fine edge work and/or serrations but I never feel right about using them. I like to say that mine are all natural so to speak. I find myself making less and less of these every year, it's hard on the hands and knuckles and I think that the image of knappers is getting worse all the time- a few people ruin it and give the rest of us a bad image that I don't want to be associated with.
 

Cannonman17 said:
Wow, that is scary. At least they helped you set your table back up- ;D I haven't ever tried to put any patina on any of mine, I don't see any point (pardon the pun) in it. I have in the past used metal to Knapp with, a copper bopper for the percussion and a nail for fine edge work and/or serrations but I never feel right about using them. I like to say that mine are all natural so to speak. I find myself making less and less of these every year, it's hard on the hands and knuckles and I think that the image of knappers is getting worse all the time- a few people ruin it and give the rest of us a bad image that I don't want to be associated with.
Click to expand...

It was a bit scary at first but became more frustrating then anything. Laura (my girlfriend) and I are still together and to this day she laughs about it. She says it's the only time she has ever seen that I couldn't talk my way out of something....lol.

You might try using a pair of those heavy work gloves. They save a lot of cut up fingers. Also, I was watching a knapper work on Pine Ridge a while back. He's 89 years old and does fantastic work. He was using a piece of Elk skin to hold the piece with.
Deepsix
 

I use a piece of leather to hold the piece but I CAN'T use gloves- I tried that but you lose the feel for the piece. I've seen other's use gloves but I don't know how they do it, if I use them I might just as well be knapping with two left hands- doesn't work. I suppose it's all a matter of what you get used to. Besides that, most of the cuts and scrapes and splinters came on the path to learning, it's pretty rare now that I get a cut.
You know what I was thinking about that I thought would be cool? (probably would take up too much room here though) start a scan of a pre-form and only allow myself to work on it for like five minutes a day and then scan it- day by day a person could watch the progression of how a point is made. What do you think?
 

No, I didn't start anything yet- just a thought. Maybe if I get some free time tomorrow or the next day I will.
 

I think that would be a GREAT idea, education at its finest!!!! You might get someone to take a picture of the actual step you are doing also. It might help some to better understand what you are doing and what they are seeing.

I was also thinking about doing something similar with the Petroglyphs I carve. Not a step by step but post one and the first to decipher its meaning and post it, will win it. What do you think?? It might encourage people to do a little research into the ancient picture writing like your idea could be the inspiration to get someone into knapping.
Deepsix
 

Okay- I'll do it. I sure picked a bad time of year to start though- snow on the ground this morning, had to let the truck warm up for 15 minutes to defrost... cold weather knapping means stiff finger joints but it will still be fun. I hope to start tonight, if not tomorrow. Rather than just five minutes a day and one post a day I think what I'm going to do is just start it, scan it, work for five minutes, run up stairs and scan it, go back out and work for five minutes, come back in, scan it, and repeat the process until finished- then, depending on if I have enough time to finish the whole project or not I should be able to post the whole process from start to finish in a couple of days or less. Stay tuned. (Suddenly I feel nervous... it will be embarassing if it doesn't turn out) :-[ Of course I could just start all over and nobody would ever know.... no, I won't do that, I'll "keep it real".
 

don't be nervous my friend. We're all looking forward to seeing it.
Deepsix
 

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