Another Game-Changer

[uniface]

A while back they made a big splash out of finding a 9,000 year-old caribou hunting blind of stone under Lake Huron, inundated by the melting glacier (they have a time-line problem there, but that's probably not polite to mention).

Now it turns out that obsidian debitage in it is from central Oregon.

High time to just start the whole history of NA over from scratch, IMO.

www.sott.net/article/454258-Research-team-finds-9000-year-old-stone-artifacts-in-Lake-Huron

 

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[newnan man]

They have found beautiful Obsidian artifacts in Ohio in troves. Ross Points, eccentrics, etc. Nearly all found in mounds excavated in the Chillicothe area. It is not as old as the ones in this article but stunning in its workmanship. The Ohio Obsidian was sourced in Yellowstone National Park.

 

[Garscale]

Here is the thing...we have been indoctrinated from the gitgo that the first Americans were super primative wanderers incapable of infrastructure, civilization, or commerce. Horse chit! Sure hunting groups covered lots if ground. Sure they expanded to new areas. That said, they were extremely capable and intelligent. These hunting walls are just a drop in the bucket . Trade 2000 miles? Why not. No doubt they came here from much farther.

 

[uniface]

They have found beautiful Obsidian artifacts in Ohio in troves. Ross Points, eccentrics, etc. Nearly all found in mounds excavated in the Chillicothe area. It is not as old as the ones in this article but stunning in its workmanship. The Ohio Obsidian was sourced in Yellowstone National Park.

Yep. The difference being that, as you point out, Mound Builder trade networks are well known. But ca. 7,000 BC is a different story. Then again, I recall reading in Across Atlantic Ice that a Clovis point of Burlington chert had been found in Oregon.

The whole model, beginning with Darwin's silly Cave Man fantasy, is bankrupt by now.

 

[Garscale]

GAULT turned out a floored dwelling some 17ish thousand years old. I personally dug a spring with a well defined dam around it made of clay. It was heavily fired whether incidentally or intentionally. The effect was the same. It was below everything and had sloth slayer and Clovis artifacts in the charcoal layer right around the spring. This made a pool maybe 40ft across. Anyone that could make a paleo point and kill a mastodon was smart enough to create a well from a spring.

 

[joshuaream]

Interesting update on the Huron sites, I hadn't heard about the obsidian. The link to the actual research paper in the article is great.

I could see Early Archaic people either finding and curating an older biface, or I could see a piece somehow making it through a loose group to group trade network over to the great lakes. We know Paleo people crossed and lived at high altitudes in the Rockies and Cascades (likely seasonally), so if you can go up, down, over and around some serious mountains, following a river across the plains had to be a piece of cake (physically at least.) Hopefully this sparks some broader technical studies of things we can "really science" like the chemical composition of obsidian sourcing, tracing great lakes copper, etc. Until we have a bunch of hard science PhDs saying here are the dots and this is the logical way to connect them, we won't really move on much from Clovis-First. We've move the line of discussion, but it's still framed up by- "My favorite professor put forth this idea, and that is my paradigm to prove." (Basically you have a handful of Archaeologists who have defined their different pre-Clovis flavors of choice, and they are working to support that theory.)

As far as the timeline, I don't get what you mean.

Caribou (maybe not the same subspecies) existed in the Lower part Michigan into the 1800's, and still occasionally grace the Canadian-side of Lake Superior near the Upper Peninsula. The age of the lakes is establish as post glacier, but they filled at very different rates. Some of the open water areas today, were probably swampy marsh land 3000 years ago, and dry land 5000 years ago. Much of the drainage basin on the Canadian side was locked up with permafrost until a few thousand years ago. (I can't find a citation, but I once read that Northern Indiana had permafrost until like 5000 years ago, Michigan and Ontario would have likely had it until much more recently.) I don't see any incongruency with the timeline of ancient shores.

 

[T.C.]

Traded or raided...pretty simple. Up around the Dalles, Orygun, numerous tribes from WA., CA., NV., ID. gathered to trade...it is documented. The Klamaths traded Shasta slaves from NorCal.

 

[uniface]

As far as the timeline, I don't get what you mean . . . The age of the lakes is establish as post glacier, but they filled at very different rates. Some of the open water areas today, were probably swampy marsh land 3000 years ago, and dry land 5000 years ago. Much of the drainage basin on the Canadian side was locked up with permafrost until a few thousand years ago. (I can't find a citation, but I once read that Northern Indiana had permafrost until like 5000 years ago, Michigan and Ontario would have likely had it until much more recently.) I don't see any incongruency with the timeline of ancient shores.

ome of the comet proponents now [2008] propose a different trigger for the cold spell. The massive airbursts over Canada could have destabilised the continental ice sheet, opening new drainage channels to the east. Additionally, dust and debris from the explosions may have darkened the ice, absorbing solar heat and accelerating melting. “What we suggest is that the meltwater outflow from the proglacial lakes and from the temporarily melting ice sheet was the result of extraterrestrial impact,” says Kennett.

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/the-great-lakes-comet-in-clovis-america/

About 9,000 years ago, when water levels in Lake Huron were approximately 100 m (330 ft) below today's levels, the Alpena-Amberly ridge was exposed.That land bridge was used ass a migration route for [by] large herds of caribou.

Deepest point today is 751 feet.

You can parse this out if interested. IMO, it looks way too much like the lake depth numbers were adjusted to support the 14C reading. They're even usually cited to establish the date. But if glacial melting was catastrophically rapid (and all evidence indicates it was), your scenerio looks like a fairy story because the site would have been underwater long before 7,000 BC.

Edit to add that the comet (or whatever) blew up directly over Ontario -- pretty much the place at issue. Yet not enough of the glacier at ground zero melted that, 3,000 years later the ridge wasn't underwater ?? Time line in a nutshell, IMHO.

 

[Garscale]

Joshua, on the Clovis first point.... it is clear to me that Clovis was just a technology that spread through existing peoples. That's the only explanation for the vast distance it spread in a relatively short time.

12000 years from now some scientist may discover cell phone man that lived around 2020. Cell phones are just a technology that a spread through existing populations just like Clovis did in my opinion.