✅ SOLVED Ammunition brass!! Need help!

SCDigginWithAK

Bronze Member
Mar 31, 2012
1,489
357
South Carolina
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Metal Detecting
Found these at an old home site. The shotgun head stamp says Western Xpert and the other has writing on it but I can't make it out. The pistol/rifle bullet also has 3 rings on it. How old are these? This will help date the site


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In 1898, Franklin W. Olin established Western Cartridge Co. at East Alton, Illinois, to add to his existing powder manufacturing business. In 1931, Olin purchased the bankrupt Winchester company. In the mid-1960s, the separate Western brand of cartridges was discontinued, and only the combined Winchester-Western name was used thereafter. Supposedly, at least in the early years, Western only manufactured 12 and 16 gage shells. I thing the Western Expert started being manufactured after 1931, but don't hold me to that. The other one I've never seen, but it sure looks to be a large bore, and perhaps it's a shot shell also. ???
 

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In 1898, Franklin W. Olin established Western Cartridge Co. at East Alton, Illinois, to add to his existing powder manufacturing business. In 1931, Olin purchased the bankrupt Winchester company. In the mid-1960s, the separate Western brand of cartridges was discontinued, and only the combined Winchester-Western name was used thereafter. Supposedly, at least in the early years, Western only manufactured 12 and 16 gage shells. I thing the Western Expert at being manufactured after 1931, but don't hold me to that. The other one I've never seen, but it sure looks to be a large bore, and perhaps it's a shot shell also. ???

Thanks now that u say that about the other shell I think it maybe! The opening is maybe the size of a dime
 

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If it's about the size of a dime, if my memory isn't screwed up, that means it's darn near a 12 gage. The three rings might possibly be where the brass was crimped onto the paper part of the cartridge, which would have decayed away by now. If that's the case I think the shell would date back to 1900 plus of minus and would be relatively rare. ???
 

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It's on the dime and you can see the dime

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No, it's not 12 gage. Still might be the base of a paper cartridge though, we just don't know the gage now.
 

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I just found this on Wikipedia second one?



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I know that this is marked "solved", but can I add some information for a bit of clarification? I also have a question to ask. Does the 12ga have "Made in USA" under the word Western?

Concerning your Western Headstamp

1. As best as I have been able to determine, 1923 is the year that the Xpert line of shells was introduced.

2. I don't have years when Western Cartridge Company started manufacturing different gauges, but by at least 1915 they were manufacturing 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges.

Your .410 head.

1. I believe that you actually have a Remington Peters .410 (or possibly Remington Express 410).

Doug
 

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I know that this is marked "solved", but can I add some information for a bit of clarification? I also have a question to ask. Does the 12ga have "Made in USA" under the word Western?

Concerning your Western Headstamp

1. As best as I have been able to determine, 1923 is the year that the Xpert line of shells was introduced.

2. I don't have years when Western Cartridge Company started manufacturing different gauges, but by at least 1915 they were manufacturing 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges.

Your .410 head.

1. I believe that you actually have a Remington Peters .410 (or possibly Remington Express 410).

Doug

It is broken where it should say made in USA so I don't know. But today I found a New Club how old would that be?
 

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It is broken where it should say made in USA so I don't know. But today I found a New Club how old would that be?

On the Western Xpert, "Made in USA" is right below the word Western. Most of the time, it is bold like this.

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It is not uncommon to find it with just part of "Made in USA" - some seem to have a smaller, lighter stamp like this one.

wesxpr16-002.jpg

In one of the pics of yours, it seemed like I could almost make out a letter or two and in the others, I was not sure.

I will need more info on the New Club.
1. Is it is UMC New Club, Remington UMC or REM-UMC New Club?
2. Is there any design around the primer at all? (single line, double line, star with a point at the 12:00 position, star off kilter, "backwards G" design, plain, etc.)

With the info requested, I can get you a fairly tight, accurate date for the New Club.

You have some great finds! I love seeing the shotshell heads found and posted!

Doug
 

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It's in very bad shape. On the top I can see Co. And that's it. On the bottom New Club. There is not deign around the center.
It looks extremely old lol.



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It is a UMC New Club (plain variety). Although the UMC New Club line will date from 1892-1910, your variety will date from approx. 1893-1900 +/- a year.

Doug
 

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