Ajustable Ground Balance and Depth - Please Comment

[Michigan Badger]

I figure this goes with the air test question I've already posted.

Your comments here could really help some new comers and some of old timers as well.

Please comment on ground balancing (GB).

To be more specific, consider the following (not limited to these):

In regard to adjustable ground balance...

1) how does it improve depth in mineralized soil? Does it mean the detector is able to totally compensate for the mineralization and therefore the depth cababilities are the same as in low mineralized soil?

2) how much of an advantage is adjustable GB over a factory set GB? Please share your own test results, etc. Are there times when it could be an advantage to have a factory set GB or is the factory set always a weakness?

3) of all the machines you've ever owned, which one handled ground mineralization the best?

 

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[Sandman]

Being able to ground balance is extremely important. Either the machine does it automaticly or you do it manually. Because the mineralization may change a lot in just a few feet, a detector that is factory preset is at a great disadvantage as far as depth and stability. Not all automatic balancing detectors are equal either. The manufactoures like to confuse us with conflicting claims and it is up to use to decied what to do. A preset detector is good for hunters that don't want to mess with controls and just like to "whip grass." In the right ground they do quite well and can reach good depths. But if your in a part of the country or have bad ground areas you are handicapped.

I am not a rocket scientist either. I put duct tape on my VCR to cover the blinking clock. I can set it, but I am not going to be come a slave to a VCR that blinks its clock everytime the power goes down for a second.

Sandman

 

[slow sweeper]

A manual set GB is a definate advantage. IF you can set it correctly. An incorrectly set manual GB is a definate disadvantage.

 

[Night Stalker]

I figure this goes with the air test question I've already posted.


2) how much of an advantage is adjustable GB over a factory set GB? Please share your own test results, etc. Are there times when it could be an advantage to have a factory set GB or is the factory set always a weakness?

3) of all the machines you've ever owned, which one handled ground mineralization the best?

Zeb, like Slow Sweeper mentioned, having the capability to manually ground balance your machine definitely has its advantages by putting YOU in control of your machine, and not some tech at the factory.?

I own the Deleon and Cortes and in my opinion, the factory has the pre-set ground balance set FAR too low on the DeLeon.? I suspect they done this so people wouldn't be sending their units back to the factory for "check ups" due to erractic behavior and falsing.?

I use the DeLeon to sweep schools and parks, it's a GREAT coin magnet!? However, if I go after deep relics and even deeper coins, I always grab the Cortes, because I have the OPTION of manually ground balancing the unit myself instead of relying on the factory to "estimate" my particular type of soil conditions.

Go to your local dealer and give the Cortes a spin....I think you'll like it, especially the "sum" feature (nine tones) and is nearly 100% accurate.?

Oh yeah, you asked how it improved depth in mineralized soil. Having a factory pre-set GB is indeed a serious issue because you are not able to adjust that slight "hum" and you certainly won't hear that even quieter "zip" as is passes over that deep trinket.


Well, that's my opinion.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I figure this goes with the air test question I've already posted.


2) how much of an advantage is adjustable GB over a factory set GB? Please share your own test results, etc. Are there times when it could be an advantage to have a factory set GB or is the factory set always a weakness?

3) of all the machines you've ever owned, which one handled ground mineralization the best?

Zeb, like Slow Sweeper mentioned, having the capability to manually ground balance your machine definitely has its advantages by putting YOU in control of your machine, and not some tech at the factory.?

I own the Deleon and Cortes and in my opinion, the factory has the pre-set ground balance set FAR too low on the DeLeon.? I suspect they done this so people wouldn't be sending their units back to the factory for "check ups" due to erractic behavior and falsing.?

I use the DeLeon to sweep schools and parks, it's a GREAT coin magnet!? However, if I go after deep relics and even deeper coins, I always grab the Cortes, because I have the OPTION of manually ground balancing the unit myself instead of relying on the factory to "estimate" my particular type of soil conditions.

Go to your local dealer and give the Cortes a spin....I think you'll like it, especially the "sum" feature (nine tones) and is nearly 100% accurate.?

Oh yeah, you asked how it improved depth in mineralized soil.? Having a factory pre-set GB is indeed a serious issue because you are not able to adjust that slight "hum" and you certainly won't hear that even quieter "zip" as is passes over that deep trinket.? ?


Well, that's my opinion.

Thanks, Stalker.

I read on the Find's Forum that the Cortes has a factory set GB in the discrimination mode but manual GB in the all-metal mode. Is this correct?

Quoting Monte:

"The Cort?s relies on a manual GB for the All Metal mode, but a factory preset for the Disc. mode and, in higher mineralized sites, I have found every Cort?s I have owned and/or used to have a too-negative GB setting and that causes falsing and poor performance."

 

[Night Stalker]

Yep, factory set in discrimination mode (just like 99% of all other high end detectors), however, you can adjust the discrimination level down to zero (all metal) or up to max (will only pick up coins grouped in the 95 range).

As far as the Cortes having a too negative GB setting in mineralized soil, I personally have never experienced this? I've used the Cortes in just about any type of soil one might expect to run across (even the beach). Rarely have any problems with falsing, when I do, it's normally because I have either the GB or TH adjustments slightly off. Maybe I'm just used to the machine, I just don't have any problems....

I'm certainly not trying to plug Tesoro - any detector that one feels comfortable and confident with is the detector for them.

BTW, I've brand hopped nearly all my life and settled on Tesoro. Everybody has their own brands, makes and models, and can talk one way or the other about any detector. It's my opinion that ANY top-end detector is just as good as ANY other, however, it's the USER that makes all the difference in the world.

 

[rvbvetter]

Simply put. The difference between Factory Set GB and Manual GB

Factory Set Ground Balance (Approximate)

Manual Ground Balance (Precise) HH

 

[U.K. Brian]

Re: Ajustable Ground Balance and Depth - Important point missed...

Apart from the point that has been mentioned that factory set ground balance might only be correct on one in a hundred sites if your lucky whats more important is the effect when you start swapping coils.
You have saved a few dollars by buying a fixed balance machine then spend perhaps a couple of hundred on a different size coil and never get the full benefit. You can send the machine off and have it tuned to the new coil but what effect does that have on the original stock coil that you might want to swap back to at any time.
In the U.K. you would have your Tesoro slightly modified and a switch fitted on the front panel to select the optimum setting for each coil. Or just go for an adjustable ground balance model in the first place and save a lot of trouble.
With the Cortes which is similar to the U.K. Hawkeye, as far as I know it IS a combination of fixed and adjustable. Stick on a large coil and see the results on the meter I.D. Not to good.

 

[Leon]

Being able to ground balance is extremely important.? Either the machine does it automaticly or you do it manually.? Because the mineralization may change a lot in just a few feet, a detector that is factory preset is at a great disadvantage as far as depth and stability.? Not all automatic balancing detectors are equal either.? The manufactoures like to confuse us with conflicting claims and it is up to use to decied what to do.? A preset detector is good for hunters that don't want to mess with controls and just like to "whip grass."? In the right ground they do quite well and can reach good depths.? But if your in a part of the country or have bad ground areas you are handicapped.

Sandman

I would have to agree totally with SandMan...
Took the words right out of my mouth, well probably said it better than I could have...
Good luck, & Happy hunting~

 

[Sandman]

Thanks Leon. I need to clarify something. Automatic ground balance machines are not the same thing as factory preset. Auto detectors advance or retard the ground balance depending on the ground the coil is over. Preset are just that, they don't adjust! You have to read the advertisements carefully and not pay for something your really not getting.

Sandman

 

[DANNYGEE]

THE SANDMAN IS RIGHT.
AUTO GB TURNS OUT TO BE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.
MANUAL IS SECOND BEST SINCE YOU CAN ACCOMODATE EXTREME CONDITIONS.
LASTLY A PRESET GB WILL COVER MOST CONDITIONS EXCEPT FOR THE EXTREMES.
EACH DETECTOR WILL HAVE ITS OWN CHARACTERISTICS AND WILL HAVE TO BE LEARNED AS YOU GO.
ITS ALL FUN THOUGH.
ENJOY

 

[Willy]

One thing to beware of is "automatic ground balance" that is printed on many fixed GB detectors. Nothing automatic about it. When I first started looking for a serious detector, many moons ago, I saw all these units with "automatic" GB. Doing a bit of digging, I found out that that the statement was, at best, nothing short of misdirection. ...Willy.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with all of you that adustable GB is best. I have to do this because I can't find anyone who takes a serious stance against it.

But I still have a difficult time understanding why so many people with factory set GB machines are doing so well in so many parts of the world. Due to several factors, our soil here is really bad. From about 1870 to maybe the 1970's, many people burned or buried their trash on the lot that I now own and hunt. I'm finding no problem detecting shell cartridges, etc., buried deeply. And I use the Tesoro DeLeon.

 

[Willy]

The thing about preset GB is that it's balanced (generally) to ferrite and it's pretty rare for ground to be bad enough to approach that level. That lets a preset GB detector hunt in most grounds. Problem is, when the detector is set as such it's like having a bit of built in disc. When in milder ground the detector is "disc.'ing" out that part of the signal which would be produced by bad ground. An adjustable GB detector can, in effect, be adjusted down so that this small bit of disc. is eliminated, giving a stronger signal from the target. This is how I understand it and it assuredly involves much more than that.. but I ain't gonna type it all out. George Payne has some interesting articles on the net dealing with just that subject. He's the godfather of modern discriminating detectors and, quite possibly, the definitive source on the subject. What it comes down to (reading through his articles) is adjustable GB good, fixed not so good. ..Willy.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Danny...you say auto ground balance is best. What you should be saying is a good auto balance is second best to a good auto balance with the ability to lock the setting. Then you have to consider the ground tracking machines that only track to a certain amount from the original ground balance setting so if your going from extremes, low to high, they wont cope without being re-balanced inbetween. Add the ability to skew or offset ground balance positive or negative according to ground conditions because correct ground balance is rarely if ever the best ground balance and it can be seen that its not as simple a subject as it might seem.
Tesoro are not exactly beginners in metal detector design and see how many ground tracking machines they make. Even the Lobo Supertrac only tracks when in all metal mode due I suppose to the problems caused by the circuit tracking to metals/minerals in the discrimination mode that would cause you to ignore a wanted target.

 

[neilo]

I mainly use minelab detectors which have auto ground balance which work very well. The only drawback with this system is that very small targets can some times be lost.This happens when you continually swing your coil over the target and the auto ground adjustment starts to read the target as change in ?mineralization,and the target vanishes.To compensate for this the SD , GP series and early model sovereign have a fixed ground balance switch, this switch when activated will hold the ground balance at what ever setting it was on stopping you from losing the target.ON the SD and GP series the auto ground adjust is called tracking mode.Some people run their machines in tracking mode continually and only use fixed mode when they ?find a target.Others initially use tracking to balance their machines and run continually in fixed only switching back to tracking every now and then to balance their machines.When the machines are generally running in the fixed mode the machine runs quieter making small faint targets easier to hear
Sometimes if you get a signal initially and it vanishes after swinging your coil over it repeatedly it can be caused by a highly ?mineralised pocket of clay. To check this swing your coil in a 3ft. circle around the target then go back over the target.If its ?clay the target will vanish if not dig.


Zeb you have been busy with new topics here are a few which might be worth a post.

When is the best time to detect?hot dry conditions? Wet conditions? or ?straight after an electrical storm? day or night and why.

when is the best time to detect gold nuggets?

Whats the funniest thing to give you a signal, years ago detectors started giving weird signals and it turned out to be ?caused by the sun sending off a solar flare. Another one was build up of static electricity on an old fence caused by hot winds blowing sand off the desert on to the fence causing friction and electricity.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Zeb you have been busy with new topics here are a few which might be worth a post.

When is the best time to detect?hot dry conditions? Wet conditions? or ?straight after an electrical storm? day or night and why.

when is the best time to detect gold nuggets?

Whats the funniest thing to give you a signal, years ago detectors started giving weird signals and it turned out to be ?caused by the sun sending off a solar flare. Another one was build up of static electricity on an old fence caused by hot winds blowing sand off the desert on to the fence causing friction and electricity.

Some of these have been gone over many times but they are worthy of another round of comments. You should post them because you could better direct them.

I'm on here for a very limited time as I've come and gone from here many times. Soon I'll ride off into the sunset again. I have a very demanding occupation and soon I'll have no time for this.

As you know by reading my posts I'm not into electronics nor have I really been an avid reader on this subject over my 37 years THing history. I do this mainly for relaxation and don't usually get heavy into the technicals.

I come here when I'm thinking of getting new machines and by asking dumb and maybe not so dumb questions I finally get a little better concept of what's happening. Sometimes I even purposely stir things a bit because this can sometimes prove productive.

I believe in these (and everyone else?s) posts a lot of people learn. And, I think by typing out answers those who know even benefits. There's nothing like answering a question to stimulate the gray matter on to more provocative thinking.

So, after you "cut through the fat," what I'm saying is you should get some interesting threads going yourself.

 

[ZumbroKid]

I stayed off this one, nothing i can add, i have never had a machine with this feature. I can borrow one from the dealer any time i wish, if i do this info is good to have. Later

 

[hoser]

Concidering where I live in N.Mich where we have mostly sand, GB isn't a real problem for me. However I have detected in NH and I gotta say, the auto GB worked great for me. Next summer I will be going to Michigans upper, and with all the copper and iron ore up there, this should be a real test for GB.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I stayed off this one, nothing i can add, i have never had a machine with this feature. I can borrow one from the dealer any time i wish, if i do this info is good to have. Later

You mean you've been using one of those weak defective impotent factory set ground balance machines?!

How in the heck did you find so much?

Like the fellow from northern Michigan stated above, I too plan to expose my DeLeon (set GB) to very hostile soil. I also plan to take along an adjustable ground balance machine to see if there's really a substantial difference in depth. Personally, I'll be surprised if there is but "everybody" says this so it must be true. Oh, if only THing were simple!