Ace 250 Falsing at construction site

[Larsmed]

Hey guys

I have been hunting at a demolished housing complex. I keep digging a coin tone and dig nothing. I have heard with slabs of foundation you can get alot of this falsing...Does anyone know a way to correct this without having to buy a different machine? would a sniper coil help?


thanks

Larry

 

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[robert roy]

Hi Larry:
How long have you had your Ace? How is your pin pointing? You may not be right over your intended target. ALso how high do you have the sensitivity set. Try it again in the same area with the sensitivity set at about 4. If you have it cranked up all the way your bound to get some false readings.

ANYONE else have any ideas?

Good luck.
Robert Roy

 

[melvin_it]

Hi Larry,

Was that signal good in both directions of the sweep? Or just one? I guess was a very trashy area, as buildings usually be...The iron net they put in the concrete of the floor is the worst of ever and gives your ACE good signals. I think there's no way with it...but it's mean of a very very hard context for every machine. Recently I was searching indoor for pipes: I could find the whole line 'till, in a renewed house part, I've found the net...and I had to back home .

M.

 

[khouse]

If you don't have a sniper in those areas your going to have problems. You can't take a $1000.00 detector there with a large coil and be successful. The ends of rebar and edges of rust metal will give you good beep.
It's not your detector. If there is too much trash there you may want to find another hunting spot?

 

[EasyMoney]

Nope, it's the Ace.

I don't mean to be harsh, but few detectors will be able to deal with that kind of situation. My Minelab Sovereign would have to just sit in the van if it's all I had with me.

I have real old Tesoros that don't make a lot of noise around a lot of iron and the Compasses don't do that either.

In fact, I installed a shunt alongside a 5-5000 ohm pot on my GB on my old Compass RM7 just for fun and I can lay a piece of 6 inch by 6 inch by 1/2" steel plate right on the ground and cancel it completely. Then I can lay a nickel right on top of it or beside it or 6 inches from it, and pick up the nickel very clearly. With my Compass XP Pro or my Compass Scanner R&C I can cancel a steel washer the diameter of a donut and when I put a nickel or other coin right in the middle of it it will sound off on the nickel but not on the washer. I can do the same thing wth a Tesoro Silver Saber, Golden Sabre, Compadre, or Silver uMax or almost any other Tesoro too. An Ace 250 will not do that. It can't because it has a delayed response and can't keep up with that much target change, nor that fast.. A.H. Pro invented discrimination (1972). Tesoro invented "Control Phase Response" discrimination, very rare and very exclusive. Fisher invented automatic ground balance. Compass invented auto-retune, DD coils, etc.

The old 1970's A.H Pros could do the above washer test easily. Those were really good discriminators too, some of the best. A.H. Electronics INVENTED discrimination (patent #US 4263553). An AH Pro Quintron or Phantom (the first ground cancel discriminators), also patent #US4263553, could do it too, not just their "Super Pro", Backpacker, etc models. A White's Classic can do a fair job of it and so can a Prism, but not as well as the new Tesoros or the old Tesoros, AH Pro's, or Compasses. An Ace 100, 200, or 300 can't do it and neither can an Explorer. The old Tesoros were a bit better than the new ones at canceling iron. Like one old man I used to know who was a dealer, said, "they don't make 'em any better, they just make 'em different". BTW, Westinghouse Electric invented multi-frequency detectors back in 1972, not Minelab.

I often use a 3 inch coil on my favorite detector, but I also use a 6 inch, and it's the detector that really makes the difference, not the small coil. Yes, a small coil helps, but mostly they are best used to find smaller items like earrings, not to cherry pick any better, regardless of what people might think. I know because I used to open them up and repair the things, and they are a real mess to deal with too. The coil windings between a 3" and a 6" coil are nearly the same diameter inside the casing. Compasses though have "tuned" coils, meaning that they have a circuitboad inside the coil that balances the signal instead of using a balon capacitor or coil to control it. Nautiluses have this too, but they are set up in a different way.

Go online dude. Get a cheap Silver Saber or Compadre and enjoy the hobby more- without all the falsing. I still have a 1983 Silver Saber uMax and it has NEVER falsed, not even once, even on the nastiest of salt/magnetite beaches. It won't even false if I run it over a piece of 6'X6' solid steel. Neither will my Golden Saber. And they are both 24 years old. Tesoros are silver MAGNETS, perfect cherry pickers, and probably about the best discriminators you can buy new or old. I have found more silver rings and coins with my old Silver Saber than with all my current 23 detectors and all my old ones combined, and it only weighs 2 1/2 pounds. I've found the most gold with my Compasses though, with a cz-70 coming in just under the Compasses..

You can buy a used Silver
Saber for as little as $50 on eBay or Craig's List and they are real sweethearts.

One last little secret: The new low cost Tesoros are not a whole lot different in their circuitry than the ones from 20-25 years ago. That's why they work so well in a lot of iron.

 

[cedarratt]

How old was the house I have found that the old tacks they used to use on the walls will do that. I have had to hunt for them for quit I bit before finding them I suggest taking a magnet with you.

 

[Larsmed]

EasyMoney

Thank you for addressing the issues here. Now, I do realize that it IS my machine and that I would do better with a machine with manual ground balance and the ability to mask out other metals.

I am not saying the Ace is not a quality machine for the money because it is...It just isn't adaptable for those who hunt to all environments.

Larry

 

[khouse]

Larry,
I have had an Ace 250 for almost 2 years. All I can say is a falsing can give you a choppy,non repeatable beep. Once you get a repeatable beep pinpoint the target. Then swing the coil directly over the center in fast short sweeps. No more than 2 inches each way. If you still get a repeatable signal then dig. If there is no signal at that spot then you probably had an iron edge beep and move on. If you get a broken beep dig some to see what they are. Also reduce the sensitivity to 3 or 4 bars.

 

[robert roy]

Hi Easy Money:

I have heard alot of good regarding the old detectors.
I have to admit I am tempted to get one of the old detectors
and try it out!

Can one still get manuals for the old detectors?

Robert Roy

 

[ivan salis]

use the 250's custom program its easy to knock out the iron simplely when its reading iron push the elimate button bingo no more iron signals --- we need to get together some time -- I've used both high and low end detectors -- there are tricks of the trade so to speak that can help greatly --- Ivan

 

[EasyMoney]

Yeah Robert, there are places online where people can get manuals and schematics too, but not all the circuitry for White's and Minelabs, especially White's. It's easier to get a manual for 20 year old a detector than it is for a 3 year old Video Cam. Nobody really needs a manual for many of the Tesoros though. Even a 5 year old kid can simply turn many of them on, and simply start hunting.

Lars, snakker du Norsk, oder Svensk?

Isn't that a Swedish oder Norsk name? Ich spreche ein bischen Svensk, aber Aleman (doch) Deutsch und Espanol mas besser, Y Italian tambien. Hey don't misunderstand me Lars, I know that the Aces do work and I'm not trying to beat them up either, but they do have limitations and it is not a secret either, and that's the main issue I'm talking about. I like to give people honest answers, not opinions. I just wish that people would quit pushing some things on people when there are better options, that's all. The same goes for some Minelabs and all that hype. There are XE's and II's selling for as little as $450 on eBay and Craig's List and it's because people are pissed about how they don't work as well as they were told they would.

Ask Joe if he would rather have a Silver uMax or an Ace, that might give you a little insight. Joe knows what he's talking about.

HH

EasyMoney

 

[SC_hunter]

Hi Easy Money:

I have heard alot of good regarding the old detectors.
I have to admit I am tempted to get one of the old detectors
and try it out!

Can one still get manuals for the old detectors?

Robert Roy

Most major brand of detectors carry their old manuals in pdf formats online on their websites. I have tried a few older models of all sorts and I would stick with the newer models.

 

[EasyMoney]

Hey SC, here are a few things that I think about often. In fact, I think about them almost every time I go metal detecting:

I have found more coins with my old 1980 Bounty Hunter 800 VLF-TR than with any other detector, and I've found more old wheaties with it too..

I have found more than $500 of (face value) silver in my life and more than $3,000 in gold. I've also found roughly $7,000 in mostly coins and other items, including guns and tools.

I've found the most silver coins and rings with my 1983 Silver Sabre, and the most gold rings and jewelry with my Compass R and C. It likes tiny gold nuggets the best of anything else I've tried, save for a Fisher GoldBug II that matches it, and one other Compass (GoldScanner Pro) that matches it and two other nugget hunting Compasses that beat it.

My cz-70 has found almost as many gold rings as my Compass has.

I've also found that a Tejon also likes gold nuggets but it can't be used very well in highly mineralized soil.

The new Silver uMax and the old Silver Sabre Plus have a little better depth than the old Silver Saber, but the original Silver Sabre discriminates a little bit better than both of the newer ones. In England there is a cult-following for the original Silver Sabre because of this fact.

An original stock unmodified Garrett Deepseeker and Fisher 400 series and 500 series had the best all-metal depth of everything ever made anywhere in a hand-held detector, save for a Nexus. My current favorite older modified Compass (running on steroids) has the same all-metal depth as the old Fishers and orginal Garrett Deepseeker though, but it's been beefed up.

I think the older ones have a few advantages over newer ones and the new ones a few things over the old ones, but the older ones don't have as many toys, and most are a little heavier than the newer ones. Most newer Minelabs are heavy like those old beasts, and like the old BFO's they don't cherry pick very well, but they do handle the bad ground a lot better. My old BH VLF-TR 800 weighed 3 pounds, pretty light for it's day. I wish I still owned it.

 

[SC_hunter]

Hey SC, here are a few things that I think about often. In fact, I think about them almost every time I go metal detecting:

I have found more coins with my old 1980 Bounty Hunter 800 VLF-TR than with any other detector, and I've found more old wheaties with it too..

I have found more than $500 of (face value) silver in my life and more than $3,000 in gold. I've also found roughly $7,000 in mostly coins and other items, including guns and tools.

I've found the most silver coins and rings with my 1983 Silver Sabre, and the most gold rings and jewelry with my Compass R and C. It likes tiny gold nuggets the best of anything else I've tried, save for a Fisher GoldBug II that matches it, and one other Compass (GoldScanner Pro) that matches it and two other nugget hunting Compasses that beat it.

My cz-70 has found almost as many gold rings as my Compass has.

I've also found that a Tejon also likes gold nuggets but it can't be used very well in highly mineralized soil.

The new Silver uMax and the old Silver Sabre Plus have a little better depth than the old Silver Saber, but the original Silver Sabre discriminates a little bit better than both of the newer ones. In England there is a cult-following for the original Silver Sabre because of this fact.

An original stock unmodified Garrett Deepseeker and Fisher 400 series and 500 series had the best all-metal depth of everything ever made anywhere in a hand-held detector, save for a Nexus. My current favorite older modified Compass (running on steroids) has the same all-metal depth as the old Fishers and orginal Garrett Deepseeker though, but it's been beefed up.

I think the older ones have a few advantages over newer ones and the new ones a few things over the old ones, but the older ones don't have as many toys, and most are a little heavier than the newer ones. Most newer Minelabs are heavy like those old beasts, and like the old BFO's they don't cherry pick very well, but they do handle the bad ground a lot better. My old BH VLF-TR 800 weighed 3 pounds, pretty light for it's day. I wish I still owned it.

Geeeezzzz Easy....I was just looking at your list of detectors....I bet your wife cringes every time you come in ...what has he got to try now..lol Never hunted with a Compass but heard they were a heck of a machine. Take care and Good luck on the hunting