🔎 UNIDENTIFIED A bone box?

[Silver-Surfer]

Hello, has anyone seen something like this or have any info on it? It was inherited and I was told it's a Relic Box. The story goes that it once held a finger bone of a saint. The bone was sold off years and years ago but the box was kept. The Latin words on the outside edges translate to Adam being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. I'm guessing it's tin and has been cast, so there's got to be more of them out there. I'm especially curious about the date on the bottom of the lid, 1549. Could that be when it was made? I've tried to search for anything notable in that year, religious or otherwise, but haven't found anything. Any ideas or info would be appreciated...

 

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[invent4hir]

A Google Image search shows the lid to be like the medal "Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise" at https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/204506. The obverse of this medal (top of the lid) depicts the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise. The reverse (bottom of the lid) depicts the Expulsion of Adam and Eve. No clue about it holding a bone of a saint or other. Maybe snuff instead. How tall is the tin?

 

[Silver-Surfer]

A Google Image search shows the lid to be like the medal "Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise" at https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/204506. The obverse of this medal (top of the lid) depicts the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise. The reverse (bottom of the lid) depicts the Expulsion of Adam and Eve. No clue about it holding a bone of a saint or other. Maybe snuff instead. How tall is the tin?

WOW! Not sure why I couldn't find that. It took you about 3 minutes from the time I posted. Thanks much. The tin is 7/8" tall. I'm pretty excited that something similar is in The New York Met. I'll try to see if this could be from the original cast. The size is right for a snuff box and I also thought of that. Most of the ones I have seen are quite a bit more decorated or fancy. Guess I'm hoping that something as vulgar and common as snuff wasn't it's design purpose. I was thinking more on the lines of it being secreted out of the Vatican hundreds of years ago and the Royal Guard looking for it ever since. Pope- "Now where did I put that little box?" :0

 

[Red-Coat]

It’s a nice-looking thing.

It might well be a reliquary box that once held a saintly relic (be it a bone fragment, scrap of clothing or whatever) but I’m inclined to think not. The kinds of relics they held were fragile and not usually in a container that allowed them to rattle around and potentially disintegrate.

As per the example in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the depiction is the “Fall of Man and Expulsion from Paradise”, after the copperplate 1549 engraving by the German Master Engraver Heinrich Aldegrever. It might possibly be the date for your box, but it continued to be used as a medallic depiction long after Aldegrever created it.

 

[pepperj]

The box could very well be constructed from 2 of these medals

Could you measure the lid, and weigh the box also?

Here is the link of the auction details on the medal

CNG: Feature Auction CNG 96. AUSTRIA, Holy Roman Empire. temp. Karl V. Emperor, 1519-1558. Cast AR Medal (64mm, 78.69 g, 12h). Commemorating the Fall and Expulsion of Adam and Eve. By Nickel Milicz and his workshop in Sankt Joachimsthal (Jáchymov, Bo

Offering Roman coins, Greek coins, ancient coins, British coins, medieval coins, coin auctions, renaissance coins, Indian coins, rare coins, Celtic coins, European coins, Jewish coins.

www.cngcoins.com

Here is some if the link in a screen shot.

 

[Rmeav8r]

If described as a Bone Box, .... it sounds possible that it onetime contained a fragment of a canonized saint? These fragments were usually very small parts of their body, such as bone, hair or clothing that are authenticated by ecclesiastical authorities and preserved in churches. The Catholic Church strictly forbids selling these items, usually they are inherited or returned to the church if no descendants desire to have them.

 

[Silver-Surfer]

The box could very well be constructed from 2 of these medals

Could you measure the lid, and weigh the box also?

Here is the link of the auction details on the medal

CNG: Feature Auction CNG 96. AUSTRIA, Holy Roman Empire. temp. Karl V. Emperor, 1519-1558. Cast AR Medal (64mm, 78.69 g, 12h). Commemorating the Fall and Expulsion of Adam and Eve. By Nickel Milicz and his workshop in Sankt Joachimsthal (Jáchymov, Bo

Offering Roman coins, Greek coins, ancient coins, British coins, medieval coins, coin auctions, renaissance coins, Indian coins, rare coins, Celtic coins, European coins, Jewish coins.

www.cngcoins.com

Here is some if the link in a screen shot.

View attachment 2201662

Your idea that the box may have been made from the two medals, (separated) is something that I had not considered. Very possible. The weight is 71g, (2.5oz) and the diameter of the piece is 57mm, (2 1/8"). I'm confused about the listed artist by the auction house. Other replies show it being German, not Austrian. Thanks for the info and interest.

 

[Silver-Surfer]

It’s a nice-looking thing.

It might well be a reliquary box that once held a saintly relic (be it a bone fragment, scrap of clothing or whatever) but I’m inclined to think not. The kinds of relics they held were fragile and not usually in a container that allowed them to rattle around and potentially disintegrate.

As per the example in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, the depiction is the “Fall of Man and Expulsion from Paradise”, after the copperplate 1549 engraving by the German Master Engraver Heinrich Aldegrever. It might possibly be the date for your box, but it continued to be used as a medallic depiction long after Aldegrever created it.

Thanks for the response. Is it possible to tell if the box is from the original casting or a more recent copy?

 

[Red-Coat]

Thanks for the response. Is it possible to tell if the box is from the original casting or a more recent copy?

I wouldn't know how to put an age to it, unless it has a maker mark... which I assume it doesn't.

 

[pepperj]

Thanks for the response. Is it possible to tell if the box is from the original casting or a more recent copy?

Have you a measurement and weight?

 

[pepperj]

Your idea that the box may have been made from the two medals, (separated) is something that I had not considered. Very possible. The weight is 71g, (2.5oz) and the diameter of the piece is 57mm, (2 1/8"). I'm confused about the listed artist by the auction house. Other replies show it being German, not Austrian. Thanks for the info and interest.

Not the reference I posted up as the one coin is larger. But weighs just a few grams lighter than your total weight.
The image us bang on though.
Back to the drawing board.

 

[Red-Coat]

I'm confused about the listed artist by the auction house. Other replies show it being German, not Austrian. Thanks for the info and interest.

The medal itself was produced for the Austrian (Holy Roman) Empire by Nickel Milicz using engravings originally produced by Heinrich Aldegrever. Milicz’s workshop was in what is now Jáchymov in the Czech Republic and Aldegrever worked out of what is now Soest in Western Germany.

Jáchymov was originally in Bohemia, a duchy of Great Moravia, later an independent principality, a kingdom in the Holy Roman Empire, and subsequently a part of the Habsburg monarchy and the Austrian Empire. It included territories which are today part of the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Poland, Romania, Croatia, Serbia, Ukraine and Slovenia.