80 Acres claim one man loop hole ?

[Bodfish Mike]

Per everything I have read
"The maximum size of a placer claim is 20 acres per locator"


Originally four names located on claim and then a transfer of interest -- now only one name on
claim, has this guy found a loop hole ? he has filed a small miners waiver the last five years
on the 80 acre claim. Just seems wrong to me.

 

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[goldog]

Where's the loophole? It's just not valid. A loophole would imply a workaround. This appears to be "grandfathered" in a less than legal way.


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[Rail Dawg]

Not a valid claim.

You could locate over this after checking records.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Two "loopholes".

The first is that the BLM sometimes takes years getting around to sending a reduce and amend "excess acres" notice. You really can't count on the amount of time it takes for them to enforce the 20 acre rule. If you are in California in particular don't hold your breath waiting for BLM to make a move. Nevada or Utah it can happen pretty quick.

The second and real "loophole" is if the claimant has proof of discovery established before the claim was transferred. A single claimant can hold up to a 160 acre mining claim if they have established their proof of discovery. Not many small miner claim owners have gone to the trouble to prove their discovery but most mining companies spend a lot of money and time proving their discoveries. It's how mining companies raise money for development of mines. Proof of discovery is the first goal of professional miners after they establish their location.

Small miners establishing their proof of discovery is not common but I know of several instances where the BLM challenged the claim size and the claim owners were prepared with discovery proof and kept their claims intact with more than 20 acres per claimant.

Just another reason to perfect your mining claim.

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

Good lesson Clay Diggins (I call you Mr. Diggins lol)

 

[Clay Diggins]

Not a valid claim.

You could locate over this after checking records.

You can locate over any claim you wish. Only the Senior locator can throw you off. We see a lot of overclaims, sometimes 5 deep. We try to be nice and assume the overclaimers are either stupid or misinformed. Once you read this you will no longer be misinformed. The rest is up to you.


ONLY a court of law can determine whether a mining claim is valid. If you (Junior claimant) locate over an existing claim you have 30 days to serve the Senior locator and bring suit in the first court of record or your overclaim is invalid. The law protects the first (Senior) locator. All that follow have to bring a civil suit to challenge the Senior claim. If the Junior claimant loses often they are stuck with with the Senior claimant's expenses and may be open to a criminal charge of mineral trespass.

Try to be nice to your fellow miners. Assuming you can, on your own, declare another miner's claim invalid is a bad move that can get you in serious hot water.

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

You can locate over any claim you wish. Only the Senior locator can throw you off. We see a lot of overclaims, sometimes 5 deep. We try to be nice and assume the overclaimers are either stupid or misinformed. Once you read this you will no longer be misinformed. The rest is up to you.


ONLY a court of law can determine whether a mining claim is valid. If you (Junior claimant) locate over an existing claim you have 30 days to serve the Senior locator and bring suit in the first court of record or your overclaim is invalid. The law protects the first (Senior) locator. All that follow have to bring a civil suit to challenge the Senior claim. If the Junior claimant loses often they are stuck with with the Senior claimant's expenses and may be open to a criminal charge of mineral trespass.

Try to be nice to your fellow miners. Assuming you can, on your own, declare another miner's claim invalid is a bad move that can get you in serious hot water.

Heavy Pans

Point taken.

Thanks!

I only locate a claim when I'm sure it's been closed.

Too much work otherwise plus it creates bad blood as you said.

But if I don't locate someone else surely will.

This is why a records check is so important.

 

[Bejay]

Challenging overclaimers is not an easy thing to accomplish. One must be ready to bear the burden of fulfilling all the necessary "pre-requisite" procedures and then only hope that the challenge progresses expeditiously. I would certainly agree with Rail Dog. Being nice may work; but past experiences show that dealing with "stupid" can be more than frustrating!

Bejay

 

[Clay Diggins]

Good lesson Clay Diggins (I call you Mr. Diggins lol)

Calling an old hippie "Mr." anything isn't going to get you any points. It's a cultural thing. er... lol


Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Challenging overclaimers is not an easy thing to accomplish. One must be ready to bear the burden of fulfilling all the necessary "pre-requisite" procedures and then only hope that the challenge progresses expeditiously. I would certainly agree with Rail Dog. Being nice may work; but past experiences show that dealing with "stupid" can be more than frustrating!

Bejay

Stupid seems to be a requirement in some places Bejay. I know you have first hand experience. I'm sorry you had to wade through that stinking mess.

Hope you are on the gold this summer.

Heavy Pans

 

[winners58]

if you transfer to a lesser number of claimants they will eventually send a letter telling you to submit information or reduce the size
see illustration 80 in the BLM Mining Claim Administration Handbook
I know several people that have just written a long letter covering most of what was asked for along with history of the claim and surrounding area
and they have gotten the letter in illustration 81 that they are fine and BLM doesn't want to do a full mineral exam at this time.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

Calling an old hippie "Mr." anything isn't going to get you any points. It's a cultural thing. er... lol


Heavy Pans

Sort of like calling a sergeant "sir" in the military.

 

[Bejay]

Sort of like calling a sergeant "sir" in the military.

Not even close! Nothing military about Clay! And the beer can't be in a Styrofoam cup!

Bejay

 

[Bodfish Mike]

Great info, forgot to add that the guy has two names on the adjoining 1/4 section claim 160 acres.
240 acres total two names -- I doubt he has proof of discovery is there any way to check?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Great info, forgot to add that the guy has two names on the adjoining 1/4 section claim 160 acres.
240 acres total two names -- I doubt he has proof of discovery is there any way to check?

You could ask him?
It might be an educational conversation.

Heavy Pans

 

[Bejay]

By chance (and maybe not by chance) a miner from my small town ended up having 3 adjoining 40 acre claims next to a friend of mine. One day I ran into him at coffee, and he was telling me about his claims by my friends claim. When I found out he was a single locator on each of the 40's I mentioned to him that he needed an additional locator on each; he promptly advised me that he had purchased the claims and when a person purchases a claim, that had been located by two, the purchaser need not have two any longer. Now after 3 years the claims are no longer his....BLM finally did him in. It is funny how people contrive new standards......but I think the original seller knew a little about such things and might have set him up to fail. One must always know how to play by the rules or sooner or later the ax will fall!

Bejay

 

[Rail Dawg]

Not even close! Nothing military about Clay! And the beer can't be in a Styrofoam cup!

Bejay

My mistake!

I did serve 8 years in the Navy.

Gotta protect the rights others have lol!

 

[Bodfish Mike]

You could ask him?
It might be an educational conversation.

Heavy Pans

Yes I was thinking of writing him a letter, not about what I'm asking (*****ing) about here but about another claim that he has forfeited. It was a major past producer and is open now.
If he calls me I can fit the rest into the conversation and maybe he will want a partner and a new friend.
Thanks for your help.
Mike

 

[GoldpannerDave]

Not even close! Nothing military about Clay! And the beer can't be in a Styrofoam cup!

Bejay

Perhaps, but I think you probably never called a sergeant "sir." It would not win you any points either; likely get a sharp retort...and many here know exactly what the sergeant would say.

 

[arizau]

Perhaps, but I think you probably never called a sergeant "sir." It would not win you any points either; likely get a sharp retort...and many here know exactly what the sergeant would say.

Don't forget about CPO's or "chiefs"....Sir. U.S.N., U.S.N.