.44 Colt Army Question

[Digger7]

I guess this question is directed to Cannon Ball Guy (a friend told me you would probably know)... or anyone else who may know the answer.

We have found about 100 Colt. 44 drops at the Civil War campsite we are working. Thomas & Thomas have the bullet listed as the Colt Army "New Model", bullet number 32 on page 16. McKee & Mason have an "early model" listed as bullet number 82 on page 27 but it lacks the lower recess.

My question is this: both books have the Colt .44 listed as a pistol bullet, but I have a reproduction 1860 Colt Army pistol and a reproduction Remington 1858 Army pistol and neither of these guns have enough clearance for the bullet to be placed in the cylinder and rotated under the plunger to press the bullet into the cylinder. How were these bullets loaded into the original model guns.

The accompanying picture is the bullet in question. It is .675 long, .455 in diameter, and 196 grains in weight. Any help would be appreciated.

 

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[Digger7]

Here is a picture showing the problem. When the bullet is placed in the cylinder down to the first ring it is still too tall to go under the plunger ram.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Answers to your questions:
1- After loading into the front of the revolver's cylinder, the bullet did not project out of the cylinder at all. What you show in the 2nd photo is incorrect. A Blackpowder Colt revolver's loading-lever was used to push the bullet as far as it would go into the cylinder. In other words, you were supposed to use the loading-lever to its full travel-length, not just "partway." We relic diggers have dug up loaded Blackpowder revolvers on the battlefields, and front end of their bullets are always just slightly below the top of the cylinder's chambers.

2- Bullets for Blackpowder revolvers were almost always slightly larger in diameter than the pistol's bore. That is deliberate, for two reasons. First, you wanted to bullets to fit very tightly into the cylinder's chambers, so that they wouldn't slide out when you carried the pistol muzzle-downward in its holster. Second, manufacturing the bullet to be a bit wider than the revolver's caliber (such as .45 for a .44 revolver) resulted in a super-tight fit which helped to prevent "chain-fire." Blackpowder revolvers tended to suffer from a serious problem called "chain-fire." That term meant the flame from firing one bullet tended to ignite the gunpowder in the cylinder's next-door chamber, sometimes spreading to its other chambers. The resulting "chain-fire" explosion often ruptured the cylinder's walls while also removing several of the shooter's fingers. I've seen several civil war battlefield-found revolvers showing graphic damage from chain-fire.

Being made of soft 100%-pure lead meant the slightly oversized bullet could be compressed into the cylinder without extreme force.

Most "reputable" makers of reproduction Blackpowder revolvers include a warning about chain-fire in the instruction-manual which comes with the gun. Some recommend the use of a felt disc (called a "wad") in each chamber to help prevent chain-fire.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-692491.html

YouTube video which shows a chain-fire incident in slow motion. Also, in this one you'll see that the top of the bullets do not project out of the cylinder.:


Another:


Although this one is the result of using modern Smokeless powder instead of Blackpowder, it shows what chain-fire could cause.

 

[Hookedondetecting]

What Digger7 is saying the conical bullet is to tall to fit under the plunger. The ring on the bottom of the bullet prevents the bullet from going deeper, the tip would not pass under the plunger

I shoot a Remington Army .44 replica, had it for 20-30 years. I only used round bullets.
After adding 25 grains of gun power substitute, I also put corn meal in as wadding, then the round bullet. This allows the bullet to sit higher in the chamber. I then smear Vaseline over all the cambered bullets to keep my power dry and prevent a chain fire.

I always wondered if the old timers ever used conical bullets.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Digger 7,

Colt never made a brass framed revolver. Are you sure your reproduction is "true to scale" of the originals?

I put lube over the loaded chambers to prevent a chain fire in my .36 Navy. Keeps the fouling soft as well.

 

[Digger7]

What Digger7 is saying the conical bullet is to tall to fit under the plunger. The ring on the bottom of the bullet prevents the bullet from going deeper, the tip would not pass under the plunger

I shoot a Remington Army .44 replica, had it for 20-30 years. I only used round bullets.
After adding 25 grains of gun power substitute, I also put corn meal in as wadding, then the round bullet. This allows the bullet to sit higher in the chamber. I then smear Vaseline over all the cambered bullets to keep my power dry and prevent a chain fire.

I always wondered if the old timers ever used conical bullets.

Exactly. I know when fully loaded the bullet will be deep in the cylinder. My problem is getting the bullet under the plunger to press it into the cylinder.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I suspect Digger7's reproduction was not manufactured to permit loading of conical bullets, just roundballs... so the "gap" for loading isn't long enough to accommodate a cylindrical civil war .44 Colt bullet.

CharlieP is right, the brass frame of Digger7's reproduction revolver means it is not a Colt revolver... or at least, not a correct copy of a Colt. It might be an imitation of a Confederate version of the Yankees' Colt revolver.

For anybody here who doesn't already know... the Original mid-1800s version of .44 Colt revolver could load either conicals or balls, That is why the .44 Colt bulletmold at that time could cast both shapes. See what one of those looks like, the photo below.

 

[Digger7]

You must be right. The reproductions must have less clearance and thus cannot handle the original conical bullets. I have an original bullet mold and it has a round and a conical just as the one you pictured. I wanted to shoot some conicals that I poured using the 1800's mold. My brass frame is a reproduction of the 1858 Remington confederate pistol.

 

[BosnMate]

My first muzzleloader was a .44 caliber colt repo. I shot round balls out of it, soft lead, that actually sheared off a ring of lead when loading. I lubed the the cylinder with Vaseline, because I could buy it in a tube and that was sure simple, except Vaseline is NOT a bullet lube. But I was young and dumb, and how could fire cross over and get past a ball loaded so tight that a ring of lead was sheared off. My first 6 shots went OK, then I very smugly reloaded, thinking how smart I was, and lubed again with Vaseline. This time the darn thing chain fired, all six rounds at once. It didn't hurt the gun at all, didn't hurt me either, but really got my attention, and I don't recommend using Vaseline, it melts out and doesn't make a good lube. After that chain fire I started lubing using water pump grease, something nice an stiff that won't melt, but will stay in place until the last shot. If you want to watch a chain fire, watch the movie "Gettysburg," when the actor playing Chamberlain was involved beating off an attack at Little Round Top, you see him aiming down the hill, and firing, and it chain fires, and he brings the gun up and bug eyed stares at it, he wasn't expecting that.

 

[Digger7]

Thanks to all for your valuable insight and responses.