✅ SOLVED 23mm Coin

[steelheadwill]

Hi all,
dug this yesterday at a site that's giving up finds 1700 - 1820,
got a nice Rosa halfpence last hunt,
I was thinking 1795+ Cap or Draped half cent, as it weighs 4.9 g, and measures 23 mm.
but it gave a rather low reading for a copper coin, and I can't match up the scant detail visible
with early US Halfcents, now I think Farthing
my eyes can see more on coin than the pix show
I see 1700''70'or '79, exergue line above, and a possibly a willow leaf to right.(curved lower part of Brittannias shield?)
the other side is completely smooth, pencil rub, talcum powder, wet or dry, nothing there.
It's not much to go on, but if it can be IDed, I know this is the place to get it done


thanks for looking, Herbie.

 

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[cti4sw]

I'd clean that up some if I was you, might bring out more of the detail...

EDIT: Agreed on the 1/2-C thought, the date seems to be the right font and in the right place. Really looks like a "00" to me, so maybe 1800? Dunno if they made 1/2-Cs in 1800 or not though... I see what you think could be a leaf, it appears to me to be the bust's bosom if it is a 1/2-C.

 

[Bramblefind]

Hi Herbie - nice find! My vote is 1700 William III farthing. No legit farthings are dated 1770 or 1779 (but you never know at your sites!). It just looks like the 1700 farthing reverse from the bits of detail I see.

 

[cti4sw]

Hi Herbie - nice find! My vote is 1700 William III farthing. No legit farthings are dated 1770 or 1779 (but you never know at your sites!). It just looks like the 1700 farthing reverse from the bits of detail I see.

I'm not so sure it's that... if there really is a leaf on that exergue like steelheadwill is seeing, I don't see how it could be a 1700 William III farthing...

 

[steelheadwill]

Thanks for looking at this cti and Bramble!!
I think the next step is checking against farthing weight, Can anyone track down weight of a William III Farthing?? I need more books, specs on 'Early' coppers is often hard to find...
cti, there is an 1800 HC, and fairly common.
I found this on the hunt after one where an extra nice condition Rosa HP came out,
(which is currently being looked at by an expert, it has a die pairing that is not found in my searches, a )
they are approx the same size,
I didn't attempt a field Id, thinking it was another one, wrapped in leaf and carefully packed.
what a disappointment when I saw the clear surfaces
I am thinking it's 1700 GVGLELMIVS Farthing now, If you back off, 1700 is visible,
(often looking closer makes things harder to see
and there is a 'spur' on the bottom of brittannias shield that may be what I said 'Appeared' to be a 'willow leaf', it would be in the wrong position on a HC anyway... .

Thanks for looking!! I appreciate the time you guys put into this.
will update after more LOOKING
What do you think of this comparison! it is the reverse of 1700 farthing
TOO FUNNY! My 'H' key is not working well so every time I write 'Farthing'?

 

[steelheadwill]

I'd clean that up some if I was you, might bring out more of the detail...

EDIT: Agreed on the 1/2-C thought, the date seems to be the right font and in the right place. Really looks like a "00" to me, so maybe 1800? Dunno if they made 1/2-Cs in 1800 or not though... I see what you think could be a leaf, it appears to me to be the bust's bosom if it is a 1/2-C.

Oooh there's almost nothing I dislike more than cleaning coppers, especially ones in this condition...
better to have a shadow of the date than nothing

 

[steelheadwill]

I'd clean that up some if I was you, might bring out more of the detail...

EDIT: Agreed on the 1/2-C thought, the date seems to be the right font and in the right place. Really looks like a "00" to me, so maybe 1800? Dunno if they made 1/2-Cs in 1800 or not though... I see what you think could be a leaf, it appears to me to be the bust's bosom if it is a 1/2-C.

There's not much that I dislike more than trying to clean old copper. especially in this condition.
better to have the shadow of a date than nothing... HH !!

 

[steelheadwill]

I am fairly sure now that i have the 1700 farthing, looking forward to feedback! Thanks All, Herbie

 

[cti4sw]

To me, for some reason, the date on yours seems to be aligned flat - whereas on both of those coins you used for comparison, the date is concave. Dunno if that's a product of the corrosion, but those two 0s seem to be level to me, whereas on the farthing and 1/2-C, one should sit lower than the other. Be kinda funny if it turned out to be neither...

I saw what you meant about the spur off the shield, I did think that after I posted but decided to leave it be.

 

[steelheadwill]

That's a 1700 farthing

 

[Wildcat1750]

Great find! Glad you got it figured out.

 

[Iron Patch]

To me, for some reason, the date on yours seems to be aligned flat - whereas on both of those coins you used for comparison, the date is concave. Dunno if that's a product of the corrosion, but those two 0s seem to be level to me, whereas on the farthing and 1/2-C, one should sit lower than the other. Be kinda funny if it turned out to be neither...

I saw what you meant about the spur off the shield, I did think that after I posted but decided to leave it be.

For the farthing there's lots of contemporary counterfeits, and most likely different genuine die varieties as well.(There's many for the halfpennies) Not sure if the 1/2 cent has different varieties, but wouldn't be a surprise, and of course counterfeits of it exist as well.... so that's just a long way to say the digits not matching in the date can often mean very little when it comes ID'ing the general type of some coins, this one included.

 

[steelheadwill]

For the farthing there's lots of contemporary counterfeits, and most likely different genuine die varieties as well.(There's many for the halfpennies) Not sure if the 1/2 cent has different varieties, but wouldn't be a surprise, and of course counterfeits of it exist as well.... so that's just a long way to say the digits not matching in the date can often mean very little when it comes ID'ing the general type of some coins, this one included.

That's what I meant to say
Good to hear from you IP.
Sure were a lot of fakes around here,
The most common for me are GII HPs, recovered 12, only two are Regal issue.

In hand I can see 700 on there, so it's likely the farthing.
or a fake, I recall it read quite low for a copper, as did the Rosa from same site.

An issue that often comes up for me when trying to ID Toasted Old Coins (especially British)
is lack of info online regarding die orientation
Do you know of any resources for this?
were most or all of British regal issues coin orientation ?
Thanks & HH Everyone