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- Thread starter Frankn
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Tom_in_CA
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Re: *** THE CLUE
Frankn, most of the treasure lore stuff you read from those old 1960s/70s magazines, are a dime-a-dozen superstition. You know, they all sound like: They dying miner straggles into the wild-west saloon, the lone survivor of an indian attack. As he stumbles to the floor, he tells curious on-lookers of fabulous riches, or a secret mine, etc... and spills clues as to where it is. He dies before he can claim his riches though, of course, blah blah blah.
Frankn, most of the treasure lore stuff you read from those old 1960s/70s magazines, are a dime-a-dozen superstition. You know, they all sound like: They dying miner straggles into the wild-west saloon, the lone survivor of an indian attack. As he stumbles to the floor, he tells curious on-lookers of fabulous riches, or a secret mine, etc... and spills clues as to where it is. He dies before he can claim his riches though, of course, blah blah blah.
mrwilburino
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Re: *** THE CLUE
That story sold a lot of metal detectors.
Tom_in_CA said:The dying miner straggles into the wild-west saloon, the lone survivor of an indian attack. As he stumbles to the floor, he tells curious on-lookers of fabulous riches, or a secret mine, etc... and spills clues as to where it is. He dies before he can claim his riches though, of course, blah blah blah.
That story sold a lot of metal detectors.
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #4
Re: *** THE CLUE
The mags. are Frontier Times, and True west with writters like Frank Dobie. These along with the Desert Mag. I would consider the most reliable of the bunch. I have run down a couple of their stories and found them to ring true. I just presented the info. for those of you who want something to work on. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Of course if you have your own certified locations go for them, but in treasure hunting there is no such thing as a sure thing. Sure there is a lot of bull in the mags. but there is a lot based on facts. As a treasure hunter it is our job to weed out the facts. In the Cabin stories, there are no survivors! The stories came down from halfbreeds years later, probably the same ones that killed the miners. The three stories I researched appear to be the same location at different times. Does anyone out there live near the Little Bighorn? If so have you ever looked in this area? The closest I have have ever been to this area is Yellowstone Park. For all I know there are condos sitting there or it is in a national park. Jest offering some free research to those that want it.
The mags. are Frontier Times, and True west with writters like Frank Dobie. These along with the Desert Mag. I would consider the most reliable of the bunch. I have run down a couple of their stories and found them to ring true. I just presented the info. for those of you who want something to work on. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Of course if you have your own certified locations go for them, but in treasure hunting there is no such thing as a sure thing. Sure there is a lot of bull in the mags. but there is a lot based on facts. As a treasure hunter it is our job to weed out the facts. In the Cabin stories, there are no survivors! The stories came down from halfbreeds years later, probably the same ones that killed the miners. The three stories I researched appear to be the same location at different times. Does anyone out there live near the Little Bighorn? If so have you ever looked in this area? The closest I have have ever been to this area is Yellowstone Park. For all I know there are condos sitting there or it is in a national park. Jest offering some free research to those that want it.
mick56
Bronze Member
Re: *** THE CLUE
True or not, I enjoy these stories!!!
True or not, I enjoy these stories!!!
Lowbatts
Gold Member
Re: *** THE CLUE
I always like the ones that tout the legends of the lost military payrolls of gold that for some reason add up to most of or a good percentage of the entire defense budget from the era they came from.
Yeah, perhaps the military would send out $100,000 or so in gold coins to remote forts 150 years ago so they could pay the troops accounted for in the listed region for the next 5 years in advance, at $10-$15 a month in pay but then again maybe they had to make up for years of lost payrolls from earlier trips, too....
Nevermind the fact that these stories often include the notion that there were only 5 or 6 guards appointed to a sum that would, in those days, build an entire city out of most parts of the wilderness.
Relegate thoughts of proving those stories to sleepy time and the dream world, save your waking time for the closer, smaller hits available.
I always like the ones that tout the legends of the lost military payrolls of gold that for some reason add up to most of or a good percentage of the entire defense budget from the era they came from.
Yeah, perhaps the military would send out $100,000 or so in gold coins to remote forts 150 years ago so they could pay the troops accounted for in the listed region for the next 5 years in advance, at $10-$15 a month in pay but then again maybe they had to make up for years of lost payrolls from earlier trips, too....
Nevermind the fact that these stories often include the notion that there were only 5 or 6 guards appointed to a sum that would, in those days, build an entire city out of most parts of the wilderness.
Relegate thoughts of proving those stories to sleepy time and the dream world, save your waking time for the closer, smaller hits available.
Tom_in_CA
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Re: *** THE CLUE
the lure of these stories, is based on human psychology: The mind wants SO HARD to believe they're true, "lest you be left out". So we tend to simply believe it, because it's in print. After 35 yrs. in this hobby, I've seen firsthand how these things evolve: Even in my short time, here's an example of how such things start: True story: A guy is working a sidewalk demolition site, in an old-town district. He finds a V-nickel, barber, etc.... And he also finds an old owl-shaped amulet, with some sort of jewels for the eyes. He shows the construction workers (as a courtesy, since they'd given him permission work around them). As he shows them the owl-charm thing, he muses to them "it might be gold, and if so, then the jewels in they eyes might be precious stones perhaps, etc..".
That night, my friend got a closer look at the owl charm thing, and discovered that it was not gold, but was in fact, pot metal. And the red jewel things were nothing but colored glass. It was just period costume jewelry.
The next day, my friend was back out working this on-going project, when he spotted a tractor driver eyeing him intently. This was a worker who had not been there the previous day. After awhile, the worker's curiosity got the better of him, so he came to talk to my friend. He told my friend, that a guy had been here the previous day, finding scores of old coins, and a solid gold pendant thing! At first, my friend was caught off gaurd, when he heard that something gold had been found, thinking that perhaps someone else had come by later or something? As the two men talked, the tractor driver added that the gold pendant thing was "shaped like an owl, and had diamonds or something in the eye". At that moment, my friend realized that it was himself that the worker was talking about, and no, the object was junk, and not gold, etc... He tried to correct the worker, that the coins were only a few, and not "handfuls", and no, the owl thing was costume jewelry, and not gold. But the worker could not be dissuaded! He was confident that my friend was mistaken. How did he know? Because at the water cooler discussion that morning, his fellow workers WHO WERE EYE WITNESSES, told him so. And how can you argue with employees who were right there to see it unfold?
You see how the human mind wants so hard to believe? Now, take this psychology, and apply it to all the treasure stories you read in those old legend magazines. Ask yourself, for each and every clue: "how do they know?" Even stuff from period newspapers is subject to however a reporter hears and interprets things. And his "eyewitnesses" ....... who's to say they didn't pocket things, and simply tell their boss "gee boss, the bandit got away?" Or who's to it wasn't all an inside insurance-racket, and no cash register really left the store to begin with? There's oodles of other explanations, but the human mind simply can't believe them, "lest we be left out".
Thus, whenever onlookers come spin tales of sure-fire treasures off in some lake or cave or whatever, I sometimes take them with a grain of salt, unless they are first person accounts. If it's the "so & so, told so & so, who told so & so, who heard if first hand from his uncle bob, that so & so buried a jar of coins at such & place", I usually save my time
the lure of these stories, is based on human psychology: The mind wants SO HARD to believe they're true, "lest you be left out". So we tend to simply believe it, because it's in print. After 35 yrs. in this hobby, I've seen firsthand how these things evolve: Even in my short time, here's an example of how such things start: True story: A guy is working a sidewalk demolition site, in an old-town district. He finds a V-nickel, barber, etc.... And he also finds an old owl-shaped amulet, with some sort of jewels for the eyes. He shows the construction workers (as a courtesy, since they'd given him permission work around them). As he shows them the owl-charm thing, he muses to them "it might be gold, and if so, then the jewels in they eyes might be precious stones perhaps, etc..".
That night, my friend got a closer look at the owl charm thing, and discovered that it was not gold, but was in fact, pot metal. And the red jewel things were nothing but colored glass. It was just period costume jewelry.
The next day, my friend was back out working this on-going project, when he spotted a tractor driver eyeing him intently. This was a worker who had not been there the previous day. After awhile, the worker's curiosity got the better of him, so he came to talk to my friend. He told my friend, that a guy had been here the previous day, finding scores of old coins, and a solid gold pendant thing! At first, my friend was caught off gaurd, when he heard that something gold had been found, thinking that perhaps someone else had come by later or something? As the two men talked, the tractor driver added that the gold pendant thing was "shaped like an owl, and had diamonds or something in the eye". At that moment, my friend realized that it was himself that the worker was talking about, and no, the object was junk, and not gold, etc... He tried to correct the worker, that the coins were only a few, and not "handfuls", and no, the owl thing was costume jewelry, and not gold. But the worker could not be dissuaded! He was confident that my friend was mistaken. How did he know? Because at the water cooler discussion that morning, his fellow workers WHO WERE EYE WITNESSES, told him so. And how can you argue with employees who were right there to see it unfold?
You see how the human mind wants so hard to believe? Now, take this psychology, and apply it to all the treasure stories you read in those old legend magazines. Ask yourself, for each and every clue: "how do they know?" Even stuff from period newspapers is subject to however a reporter hears and interprets things. And his "eyewitnesses" ....... who's to say they didn't pocket things, and simply tell their boss "gee boss, the bandit got away?" Or who's to it wasn't all an inside insurance-racket, and no cash register really left the store to begin with? There's oodles of other explanations, but the human mind simply can't believe them, "lest we be left out".
Thus, whenever onlookers come spin tales of sure-fire treasures off in some lake or cave or whatever, I sometimes take them with a grain of salt, unless they are first person accounts. If it's the "so & so, told so & so, who told so & so, who heard if first hand from his uncle bob, that so & so buried a jar of coins at such & place", I usually save my time
OP
OP
Frankn
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- Thread starter
- #8
Re: *** THE CLUE
Lowbatts: There are two ways to look at metal detecting, Passive where you play it safe, hunt in the parks and get excited when you find a few coins, or adventures where you have fun shooting for a big one now and then. No you don't say I am going out and claim the big one. You say I am going to have a great adventure looking for the big one. You see finding it is the end of the adventure. The hunt is the adventure. All those stories aren't fake, In fact most of them started off with a fact and just got embellished along the line. It is your job to strip them down to the facts. Of course some so called treasure hunters are not up to the task so they settle at being passive and knocking those who are adventures. Let me tell you I have found jars of silver dollars, gold nuggets and other valuable items and it was a hell of a lot more fun than picking up coins in the park. Sure I have looked for some that I concluded were pure legend. But that is part of the adventure. And to me that's living not just existing. Give yourself a treat and try a real adventure.
P.S. In the 1800's Privates got $16/mo. Coprals got $20/mo. Sgt. got $40. The paymaster got money every 3mo. it was usually in gold coins.
Lowbatts: There are two ways to look at metal detecting, Passive where you play it safe, hunt in the parks and get excited when you find a few coins, or adventures where you have fun shooting for a big one now and then. No you don't say I am going out and claim the big one. You say I am going to have a great adventure looking for the big one. You see finding it is the end of the adventure. The hunt is the adventure. All those stories aren't fake, In fact most of them started off with a fact and just got embellished along the line. It is your job to strip them down to the facts. Of course some so called treasure hunters are not up to the task so they settle at being passive and knocking those who are adventures. Let me tell you I have found jars of silver dollars, gold nuggets and other valuable items and it was a hell of a lot more fun than picking up coins in the park. Sure I have looked for some that I concluded were pure legend. But that is part of the adventure. And to me that's living not just existing. Give yourself a treat and try a real adventure.
P.S. In the 1800's Privates got $16/mo. Coprals got $20/mo. Sgt. got $40. The paymaster got money every 3mo. it was usually in gold coins.
OP
OP
Frankn
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- Thread starter
- #9
Re: *** THE CLUE
Tom: That's a true store I've seen it repeated several times. But the treasure hunter didn't loose out, he had a great adventure. It's not the find, it's the possibility of the find that gets the blood flowing faster. Sure he had a short letdown upon close inspection, but look how long the possibility lasted. As you said it's all psych.
As you find or delete clues the drama builds with the possibilities. After you find the first big one, your hooked!
Tom: That's a true store I've seen it repeated several times. But the treasure hunter didn't loose out, he had a great adventure. It's not the find, it's the possibility of the find that gets the blood flowing faster. Sure he had a short letdown upon close inspection, but look how long the possibility lasted. As you said it's all psych.
As you find or delete clues the drama builds with the possibilities. After you find the first big one, your hooked!
Lowbatts
Gold Member
Re: *** THE CLUE
True enough Frankn, the park hunt does get mundane from time to time. Of course if you are active and engage people who stop by to converse you will hear plenty of stories over a short period, enough to fill a lifetime of hunting should you pursue very many of them.
I could fill a book, a HUGE book with the number of stories I've heard of gold centenarios buried in the old backyard cookstoves in Mexico, the number of pots of gold and silver down there. So hey, let's go! If you want real adventure, go to Mexico and find one, just one of the several hundred caches I've heard about over the years. The real adventure won't be in the hunt, it'll be as one of the hunted, should you find it and anyone else knows of it.
On the other hand, I prefer to think, as I have found out over a lifetime of treasure hunting as well, there's been plenty laid down close to home by more discrete locals. Some of them outlaws, some of them first generation Americans, some of them short-sighted and some just plain eccentric.
But none of them to be found in the pages of the treasure mags. Call me unimaginative, but I think that statistically, smarter people than me have searched in vain for pretty much all known treasure legends by now. Not saying all those who have hunted for the Beale Treasure are all smarter than me, but statiscially speaking, a good many would have been. Now what have I learned from their exploits?
A. There never was a Beale Treasure
B. The Beale Treasure has been indiscretely located and expended by now
C. The Beale Treasure is still in place
Eh, too many remote homesites from early sttlers are in this area, many of them searchable, to spend time with larger mysteries. And there's just too much local history available that strongly hints at the possibility of something lost or left behind for me to take leave and pursue something too many others have failed at doing.
More importantly, I'm real sure my circumstances are anything but unique. You probably have much more gold and silver near your own home than you'd ever find striking out for one of those well-known tales.
True enough Frankn, the park hunt does get mundane from time to time. Of course if you are active and engage people who stop by to converse you will hear plenty of stories over a short period, enough to fill a lifetime of hunting should you pursue very many of them.
I could fill a book, a HUGE book with the number of stories I've heard of gold centenarios buried in the old backyard cookstoves in Mexico, the number of pots of gold and silver down there. So hey, let's go! If you want real adventure, go to Mexico and find one, just one of the several hundred caches I've heard about over the years. The real adventure won't be in the hunt, it'll be as one of the hunted, should you find it and anyone else knows of it.
On the other hand, I prefer to think, as I have found out over a lifetime of treasure hunting as well, there's been plenty laid down close to home by more discrete locals. Some of them outlaws, some of them first generation Americans, some of them short-sighted and some just plain eccentric.
But none of them to be found in the pages of the treasure mags. Call me unimaginative, but I think that statistically, smarter people than me have searched in vain for pretty much all known treasure legends by now. Not saying all those who have hunted for the Beale Treasure are all smarter than me, but statiscially speaking, a good many would have been. Now what have I learned from their exploits?
A. There never was a Beale Treasure
B. The Beale Treasure has been indiscretely located and expended by now
C. The Beale Treasure is still in place
Eh, too many remote homesites from early sttlers are in this area, many of them searchable, to spend time with larger mysteries. And there's just too much local history available that strongly hints at the possibility of something lost or left behind for me to take leave and pursue something too many others have failed at doing.
More importantly, I'm real sure my circumstances are anything but unique. You probably have much more gold and silver near your own home than you'd ever find striking out for one of those well-known tales.
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #11
Re: *** THE CLUE
Lowbatts: I would not waist my time on the Beale map treasure although I had a chance at it one time. I had a friend that had access to a gov. computer that could crack any code . He made the offer but I declined there was to much unexplained in the story. I don't really look for the big ones that have been grossly distorted over the years. I have a friend in Quartzsite AZ that claims he knows the area where the Aztec treasure is buried
but he needs a GPR to find it. I went up to Dents Run Pa ,about 3hrs. away, to look for the 20some 50# gold bars. I spent about 5 days doing on the ground research and talking to the locals. My conclusion was it was a publicity stunt to attract tourism to the area and for a book a touring author was about to publish.
The stories are only a beginning, a starting point. The hard work lies beyond.
Actually my favorite hunting strategy is to search yards of old homes. In one of my last ones I found a gold ring with a 3 ct. ruby. worth about $2k. I like finding old pieces of history like the 200 year old blacksmith made ax that I found To me it's the adventure of looking and the thrill of finding. It's not always the money.
Lowbatts: I would not waist my time on the Beale map treasure although I had a chance at it one time. I had a friend that had access to a gov. computer that could crack any code . He made the offer but I declined there was to much unexplained in the story. I don't really look for the big ones that have been grossly distorted over the years. I have a friend in Quartzsite AZ that claims he knows the area where the Aztec treasure is buried
but he needs a GPR to find it. I went up to Dents Run Pa ,about 3hrs. away, to look for the 20some 50# gold bars. I spent about 5 days doing on the ground research and talking to the locals. My conclusion was it was a publicity stunt to attract tourism to the area and for a book a touring author was about to publish.
The stories are only a beginning, a starting point. The hard work lies beyond.
Actually my favorite hunting strategy is to search yards of old homes. In one of my last ones I found a gold ring with a 3 ct. ruby. worth about $2k. I like finding old pieces of history like the 200 year old blacksmith made ax that I found To me it's the adventure of looking and the thrill of finding. It's not always the money.
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Kentucky Kache
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Re: *** THE CLUE -To be or not to be, that is the question?
I think all cache hunters are dreamers, to some degree. You have to dream a little to keep yourself in the game. And sometimes dreams come true.
Frankn said:
I think all cache hunters are dreamers, to some degree. You have to dream a little to keep yourself in the game. And sometimes dreams come true.
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