1959 abraded die error?

[Marko0916]

Came across this interesting one yesterday. Someone gave me some info of what it may be and I wanted to see if anybody here agrees / disagrees. Thx for any feedback.


improperly annealed die at this quick heavy abraded condition, & low strike pop TDS*.

*terminal die state, just few struck before pulling this pair. usually not saved.

these need to be inspected thoroughly as they are very low population coins.

 

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[huntsman53]

I could be wrong but I do not believe that the coin is the result of an abraded Die! I believe that there was grease on both Dies especially the Reverse Die and that the doubling and rippling were the result of grease as well as excessive pressure caused by the grease.


Frank

 

[Marko0916]

I could be wrong but I do not believe that the coin is the result of an abraded Die! I believe that there was grease on both Dies especially the Reverse Die and that the doubling and rippling were the result of grease as well as excessive pressure caused by the grease.


Frank

Thanks frank. You got my attention because you mentioned grease. What got my attention was the feeling of the penny, it was oily / greasy to the touch. It was weird that it came out of the roll that color too.

 

[TypeCoin971793]

What got my attention was the feeling of the penny, it was oily / greasy to the touch. It was weird that it came out of the roll that color too.

Are you sure the distortion is not caused by something covering the coin, such as grease or oil. Coins do not naturally come from the mint with some kind of substance on it.

This is what a grease-filled die strike looks like:

 

[Marko0916]

Are you sure the distortion is not caused by something covering the coin, such as grease or oil. Coins do not naturally come from the mint with some kind of substance on it. This is what a grease-filled die strike looks like: <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=907194"/> <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=907195"/>

If that's a greased die than I would have to disagree that what this cent is. The waves you see are part of the coin not any substance on top of it, I'm positive of that

 

[huntsman53]

Are you sure the distortion is not caused by something covering the coin, such as grease or oil. Coins do not naturally come from the mint with some kind of substance on it.

This is what a grease-filled die strike looks like:

View attachment 907194

View attachment 907195

While the Cent you posted pics of has some charteristics of being struck through grease, I do not believe that is the case! I could be wrong but it appears to be a poor attempt at a man-made brockage.


Frank

 

[coinguy*matthew]

 

[Marko0916]

I had an expert take a look and this was his feedback. He also took some amazing photos. Anybody agree with him?



OK, THIS IS A NO VARIETY COIN....BUT IS A WAY PAST TDS (TERMINAL DIE STATE) STRIKE.
PRETTY COOL. I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE THIS LATE!...WHAT A GARBAGE DIE. SOMEONE WAS SLEEPING ON THE JOB HERE. THIS DIE PAIR SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED LONG BEFORE THIS HIT!
RARE/SCARCE? WELL, UNCOMMON I'LL SAY....WHY?....BECAUSE THESE CONDITION COINS WERE JUST NOT SAVED.....

 

[huntsman53]

I had an expert take a look and this was his feedback. He also took some amazing photos. Anybody agree with him?



OK, THIS IS A NO VARIETY COIN....BUT IS A WAY PAST TDS (TERMINAL DIE STATE) STRIKE.
PRETTY COOL. I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE THIS LATE!...WHAT A GARBAGE DIE. SOMEONE WAS SLEEPING ON THE JOB HERE. THIS DIE PAIR SHOULD HAVE BEEN RETIRED LONG BEFORE THIS HIT!
RARE/SCARCE? WELL, UNCOMMON I'LL SAY....WHY?....BECAUSE THESE CONDITION COINS WERE JUST NOT SAVED.....

I must say that I disagree! The Mint Workers would never let a Die ever get to this state of condition and as far as I know, there is nothing occurring during the Striking (Minting) process that would cause a Die to deform in a manner as seen on your' 1959-P Lincoln Cent. To even come close to causing what is seen on the coin, the Die would have had to been melting from overheating caused by striking too many coins per minute or hour. Therefore, I still believe that it was the result of being struck through excessive grease.


Frank

 

[coinguy*matthew]

I had an expert take a look and this was his feedback. He also took some amazing photos. Anybody agree with him?

If your gonna use the word expert you must give us his name, otherwise I do know Mike Diamond and could give you his contact info? I know a fair bit about errors but am no way to be considered an expert, I think if it were indeed a TDS as your expert says I would expect to see a cud or very big die cracks. Franks strike through grease idea is much more probable but if it was struck through grease i would expect to see much more loss in detail or clogged devices.

Mike Diamond

Mike Diamond has been collecting error coins since 1997 and has been researching and writing about them since 1999. He has written numerous articles for Errorscope, Coin World, and other publications. He was previously the President of CONECA and moderator of the CONECA Error-Variety Coin Forum. In 2001 he started the Error Coin Information Exchange (Yahoo: Groups) and has hosted it ever since. Mike writes the weekly column "Collector's Clearinghouse" for Coin World. He also compiled a 20-page comprehensive listing of error and varieties that covers every conceivable type. Over the years, Mike has discovered many new error types and advanced the understanding of many more.

http://maddieclashes.com/New_Custom_1.html

 

[huntsman53]

If your gonna use the word expert you must give us his name, otherwise I do know Mike Diamond and could give you his contact info? I know a fair bit about errors but am no way to be considered an expert, I think if it were indeed a TDS as your expert says I would expect to see a cud or very big die cracks. Franks strike through grease idea is much more probable but if it was struck through grease i would expect to see much more loss in detail or clogged devices.

I would also normally expect more loss of detail or clogged devices but without another plausible explanation for the surfaces of the coin, this is really the only condition that I know that could possibly existed. I have seen and even owned many Lincoln Cents that were struck near or at Terminal Die State of a Die and have even owned an entire series of minted Lincoln Cents that showed progression of a Die Failure from the beginning (first) Die Crack all the way to just before total failure of the Die (i.e. after the first Die Crack, the Die began cracking elsewhere and was totally coming apart). The O.P's coin almost appears that the Copper Planchet was too hot when it entered the Striking Chamber and due to the Copper being semi-solid, the surfaces and images/lettering on the coin were literally being forced outwards in flows due to the extreme pressure during the Striking Process.

While it has been many years since I have communicated with Mike Diamond, he has been a wealth of information and help to me and many others concerning Error coins! He has inspected and gave his opinion on some of my' Error coins, wrote an article about one of my' Error Cents and we even traded some Error Cents about 8 years back. If anyone would know what could have caused the rippling and doubling on the O.P.'s coin, it would be Mike!


Frank

 

[Marko0916]

If your gonna use the word expert you must give us his name, otherwise I do know Mike Diamond and could give you his contact info? I know a fair bit about errors but am no way to be considered an expert, I think if it were indeed a TDS as your expert says I would expect to see a cud or very big die cracks. Franks strike through grease idea is much more probable but if it was struck through grease i would expect to see much more loss in detail or clogged devices.

I sent the coin out to a Master Die Variety Attributer, member of Coneca. I don't think he would like me to give out his name. I would be interested in getting a 2nd opinion otherwise I'm just going to store the coin away for 20 years anyhow

Thx for any help

 

[huntsman53]

I sent the coin out to a Master Die Variety Attributer, member of Coneca. I don't think he would like me to give out his name. I would be interested in getting a 2nd opinion otherwise I'm just going to store the coin away for 20 years anyhow

Thx for any help

I am hoping the Attributer will give a clear and concise analysis of your' coin! I don't know why that the Attributer would not want to be identified as all the Attributers are clearly listed on Coneca's Website.

Die Variety Attributers http://conecaonline.org/content/coneca_attributers.html

Error Coin Examiners http://conecaonline.org/content/coneca_examiners.html


Frank