1911-S Wheat....Grade?...Value?.....and For Sale

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

Hello, I think I posted somethign with this coin a little while back when I found it.

But I was actually looking into Selling it and wanted to know what Your opinions of a fair price would be.

I looked them up on Auctions Sites and did my best to Compare and I came up with about an 80 Dollar coin....Maybe

I would love to hear others opinions

thanks,

 

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[TypeCoin971793]

I would say about a $60 coin. It looks to be a strong VF-30. A nice coin nonetheless.

 

[huntsman53]

I am sorry but without a good picture of the Reverse of the coin, no true grade and value can be determined.


Frank

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I am sorry but without a good picture of the Reverse of the coin, no true grade and value can be determined.



Frank

Sorry about that , I thought it was uploaded already.

 

[huntsman53]

After closely looking at the pics of both the Obverse and Reverse, I believe that the coin would Net grade at VF-20 (possibly VF-25 but it is a tough call)! While the Obverse is a good candidate for a VF-30 as previously stated, the damage and wear of the Reverse knocks the overall grade down. Also, the coin appears that it may have been Stuck Through Foreign material on the left Wheat head on the Reverse or it is possibly what is left of a Die Crack that has been smashed into oblivion. Even if this was a genuine Strike Through (of some kind of metal), I really don't believe that it would help the value over the Net grade. In all honesty, I think the coin would only fetch $45 to possibly $55 but who knows in this economic environment! I have seen a coin go for say $200 one day and then a coin of the same denomination, Date and mintmark that was virtually identical in color, grade and eye appeal, go for $300 or more the very next day or the scenario in reverse.


Frank

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

After closely looking at the pics of both the Obverse and Reverse, I believe that the coin would Net grade at VF-20 (possibly VF-25 but it is a tough call)! While the Obverse is a good candidate for a VF-30 as previously stated, the damage and wear of the Reverse knocks the overall grade down. Also, the coin appears that it may have been Stuck Through Foreign material on the left Wheat head on the Reverse or it is possibly what is left of a Die Crack that has been smashed into oblivion. Even if this was a genuine Strike Through (of some kind of metal), I really don't believe that it would help the value over the Net grade. In all honesty, I think the coin would only fetch $45 to possibly $55 but who knows in this economic environment! I have seen a coin go for say $200 one day and then a coin of the same denomination, Date and mintmark that was virtually identical in color, grade and eye appeal, go for $300 or more the very next day or the scenario in reverse.



Frank

Hey Huntsman,

Thanks for the input, I too have seen so many different prices on coins that ..at least to me..look identical. This coin was actually found metal detecting, thou it was so shallow, it had to be a recent drop. And after i got home and relized it was a semi key date..Im figuring it was stolen from someones collection


of course these are just my assumtions of the coin.


Thank you again for you time!

 

[huntsman53]

Hey Huntsman,

Thanks for the input, I too have seen so many different prices on coins that ..at least to me..look identical. This coin was actually found metal detecting, thou it was so shallow, it had to be a recent drop. And after i got home and relized it was a semi key date..Im figuring it was stolen from someones collection


of course these are just my assumtions of the coin.


Thank you again for you time!

Diggin-N-Dumps,

You are most welcome! While my assessment of coins is not always correct, I try to give the best assessment I can and I am always honest in what I write. Some may or may not agree and that is the way in the coin world! You can have ten qualified Graders grade a coin and get 3 different grades. I always hope that what I write is a true reflection of a coin's grade/condition and value! However, my or anyone else's opinion of a coin based on pics alone, are often flawed due to the handicap of not seeing the coin in person. I hope that you keep that in mind when reading responses!

Take care and have a safe and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


Frank

 

[Immy]

Afraid you've got an altered 1944-S there DND. The 1's in "11" are suspiciously farther apart than they should be and that style "S" didn't exist until the 1940s. Also, check for a VDB at Lincoln's shoulder. If it's there, it's an altered 1944-S. Compare:

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I just looked at about 20 different pictures of a 1911-s and I dont see any difference. I will take a better picture of it. I know the coin has no damage to it. I dont know if the angle made the pic look off. But Ive seen it close up, and they are 1's

 

[NHBandit]

Looks fine to me. Why would someone go to all the trouble of faking a key date coin and then losing it in the dirt. Simple common sense tells me it's real.

 

[huntsman53]

I am sorry but I have to agree with Immy! I never caught it before as I was concerned in giving an assessment of the coin as a 1911-S and never gave a thought to it being an altered 1944-S Cent. With the majority of the examples (specimens) of a genuine 1911-S Cent, the first "1" in the Date, lines up almost perfectly and directly above the right side of the Mintmark but this is not case with the O.P.'s coin. However, due to the Mintmark being punched manually into the Dies, there are definitely specimens where the "S" is further to the left or further to the right as is the case with many Lincoln Cents. Even if you discounted that the first "1" in the Date on this coin is too far to the right and does not align up with the right side of the Mintmark, there is still too much separation between the "9" and the "1" as well as too much separation between the first "1" and second "1". I will continue to investigate other specimens to make sure that we have not mistakenly labeled the O.P.'s coins as having an altered Date.

Diggin-N-Dumps... I am really sorry that I did not notice this until Immy brought it to everyones attention! I will pay much better attention to the details of the Date, Motto, Legend and Images on a coin in the future.


Frank

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I am sorry but I have to agree with Immy! I never caught it before as I was concerned in giving an assessment of the coin as a 1911-S and never gave a thought to it being an altered 1944-S Cent. With the majority of the examples (specimens) of a genuine 1911-S Cent, the first "1" in the Date, lines up almost perfectly and directly above the right side of the Mintmark but this is not case with the O.P.'s coin. However, due to the Mintmark being punched manually into the Dies, there are definitely specimens where the "S" is further to the left or further to the right as is the case with many Lincoln Cents. Even if you discounted that the first "1" in the Date on this coin is too far to the right and does not align up with the right side of the Mintmark, there is still too much separation between the "9" and the "1" as well as too much separation between the first "1" and second "1". I will continue to investigate other specimens to make sure that we have not mistakenly labeled the O.P.'s coins as having an altered Date.

Diggin-N-Dumps... I am really sorry that I did not notice this until Immy brought it to everyones attention! I will pay much better attention to the details of the Date, Motto, Legend and Images on a coin in the future.


Frank

When you say "Altered", You mean like someone purposly tried to make it look like a 1911? Im just confused, because even if that were true, its not really a year worth doing that too...Plus it looks to be in great shap, I would think I would see some sort of sign.

As for the Mintmark, I have seen a few different ones that are in different places...See attached.

Im not saying you guys are wrong at all...You guys know more about coins than I, I just dont get what the purpose would have been to make it look liek a different date.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I do see that the numbers appear to be a little further apart. But after comparing the 1944-S to the 1911-S, it would have alot more spacing than it has. I dont know if because i took this picture at an odd angle or what

 

[huntsman53]

When you say "Altered", You mean like someone purposly tried to make it look like a 1911? Im just confused, because even if that were true, its not really a year worth doing that too...Plus it looks to be in great shap, I would think I would see some sort of sign.

What we are saying is that someone took a 1944-S Cent and removed all of the "4's" in the Date except the vertical bars. Yes, is is worth it, when someone can alter the coin and sell it to some unsuspecting buyer. In reality, they took a coin that is worth very little and turned it into a coin that they can get $40, $50 or even $60 for. These Scam Artists are just as bad as the Chinese that make counterfeit Morgan Dollars and other coins to make money out of scamming folks and some are very good at what they do. Some are so good that even some Graders for well known Grading Services companies have been duped into thinking some coins are genuine. I truly hope that Immy and myself are wrong!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

I do see that the numbers appear to be a little further apart. But after comparing the 1944-S to the 1911-S, it would have alot more spacing than it has. I dont know if because i took this picture at an odd angle or what

I would recommend purchasing a 1944-S Lincoln Cent and measuring the distance from the "9" to the first "1" in the Date with a micrometer, then measure the distance between the first "1" and the second "1", then compare that to measurements on your' coin. The distance between the digits in the Date are always identical for coins of the same Date as all of the Dies were produced from the same Master Die but would be different when comparing 1911-S and 1944-S Cents.


Frank

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I would recommend purchasing a 1944-S Lincoln Cent and measuring the distance from the "9" to the first "1" in the Date with a micrometer, then measure the distance between the first "1" and the second "1", then compare that to measurements on your' coin. The distance between the digits in the Date are always identical for coins of the same Date as all of the Dies were produced from the same Master Die but would be different when comparing 1911-S and 1944-S Cents.


Frank

Thanks Frank! Im sure not tryign to argue with you guys. This was a shock to even hear. I Think i will be doing that tonight

thanks again for ya'lls input!!

 

[Immy]

There's an easy way to tell without even looking at the date. Find the VDB on Lincoln's shoulder. If it's there, it's a 1944.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

There's an easy way to tell without even looking at the date. Find the VDB on Lincoln's shoulder. If it's there, it's a 1944.

Thanks Immy!....Like I said before, Im not trying to argue...Im glad this came up, I would hate to screw someone over by accident

I will check when I get home...Of course in the pic i have that one spot is a bit blurred

 

[NHBandit]

There's an easy way to tell without even looking at the date. Find the VDB on Lincoln's shoulder. If it's there, it's a 1944.

Not saying you don't know your stuff because clearly you do. But... Is someone going to all the trouble of turning 4s into 1s without it showing any trace of the missing parts of the 4 going to be stupid enough to leave the VDB marking ? Looking forward to better pics and the answer to the VDB mystery when the OP gets home. I've been collecting coins since the 60s and had never heard of the fake 1911s before. Seems like alot of work to go through for a coin that's not worth much more than it is. It's only a $100 coin in Unc.

 

[TheCoinKid]

I'll be interested to see what the final answer is here. Looking at several examples of authentic coins online, the 1s on the OP's coin do appear to be out of place, and I see a more boxed "s" style in the examples. The 1911s is also on the list of common fakes. But.....as said before, what are the chances of an altered coin being dropped in the dirt?