✅ SOLVED 1862 Union Camp what-the-heck are they?

[parsonwalker]

I wouldn't have bothered, but I have found THREE of these. About a half inch long each. Were once riveted to something. At first I thought latch with keyhole, but now I don't think so . . .



This camp has yielded over a dozen union buttons, lots of bullets and camp detritus. VERY LITTLE "house junk." This little item is stamped brass and has a floral design. less than half an inch long. Any ideas on something so small but decorated?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[duggap]

I found one of those in the top picture. We decided it was from a journal or diary. That doesn't necessarily mean we are correct.

 

[creskol]

The piece on the bottom looks like the push tab on a push-up candlestick

 

[Ruchman]

Gather belt clips or old school suspender clips?

 

[ekeisler]

The top picture are pieces from knapsacks.

 

[parsonwalker]

Creskol - I like your guess. Ekeisler: Thanks a ton; any help on what they did or how they functioned?

 

[nova treasure]

top picture these clips were used as corset clips, garter clips or even a sock clip. here is a pic with them used on a corset .

 

[HutSiteDigger]

great finds

 

[taz42o]

The first items are corset hooks .
There are several hooked to metal strips called a busk.

 

[parsonwalker]

Thanks everybody. Sure looks "solved" to me! Appreciate it . . .

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Parsonwalker, here's proof of what Taz42o told you. The objects in your first photo. which are indeed corset busk fastener eyelets, were invented and patented in 1869. Here's the diagram from the inventor's US Patent, dated 1869.

 

[gtoast99]

Parsonwalker, here's proof of what Taz42o told you. The objects in your first photo. which are indeed corset busk fastener eyelets, were invented and patented in 1869. Here's the diagram from the inventor's US Patent, dated 1869.

I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit here CBG, just on the date of the introduction of these fasteners.

The patent picture you posted is not for the slot and stud split-busk fasteners. Instead, it is a patent for a non-metal stay (A) with steel spring tensioners (B). Or at least that's what I can make out from the terrible OCR, found here: Patent US86920 - Improvement in busks for corsets - Google Patents

Here is an example of a split busk corset from the V&A museum showing a split busk with identical slot and stud fasteners. The V&A lists its production date as "1860's"
Corset | V&A Search the Collections

Here is another split busk corset from the V&A. It has three fasteners, with the central fastener being close, but not exact, with the ones we typically see. The top and bottom fasteners are much different. It's production date is listed as 1864.
Corset | V&A Search the Collections

Another V&A publication has this to say about the above 1864 corset:
https://www.allenandunwin.com/_uploads/BookPdf/Extract/9781851776160.pdf

"In 1829 a split busk was patented by French corsetier Jean-Julien Josselin. It opened at the front and allowed women to fasten and remove their own corsets with ease. Until that point, laces had to be completely removed in order to get in and out of the corset, and assistance was required to tie it properly. This corset features the metal split busk, with metal hook fastenings that still show traces of blue enamel paint. The fastenings are unusual because from the middle of the century most split busks were fastened with the ‘slot and stud’ system patented by the English inventor Joseph Cooper in 1848"

This source confirms a British patent for Joseph Cooper in 1848 for "improvements in fastenings for wearing apparel" but I couldn't find the patent itself online.
The Repertory of Patent Inventions: And Other Discoveries and Improvements ... - Google Books

Finally, from "The Corset: A Cultural History", author Valerie Steele writes

"In 1848 Joseph Cooper patented the slot-and-stud fastening for the two-part busk. This worked so well that after 1850 virtually all corsets utilized it."

The Corset: A Cultural History - Valerie Steele - Google Books

 

[parsonwalker]

Those crazy corset-wearing yankees . . . !

 

[NHBandit]

And I'm also going to disagree unless someone shows me some pictures of some leather corsets, and I don't mean in a modern Victoria Secret catalog. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me those in the picture have the remains of leather still attached and I'm going to agree with the knapsack fastener theory. The same style of fastener can be used for MANY things. The fact that they were also used on corsets proves nothing. That would be like saying the nails you found have to be from a bird house because bird houses are built with nails. Just my opinion.

 

[gtoast99]

And I'm also going to disagree unless someone shows me some pictures of some leather corsets, and I don't mean in a modern Victoria Secret catalog. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me those in the picture have the remains of leather still attached and I'm going to agree with the knapsack fastener theory. The same style of fastener can be used for MANY things. The fact that they were also used on corsets proves nothing. That would be like saying the nails you found have to be from a bird house because bird houses are built with nails. Just my opinion.

Yup, that's your eyes playing tricks. It's not remains of leather you're seeing, it's remains of iron. That would be the iron strip used to attach these fasteners to the corset and keep the shape of corset down the center. There two pictures of period corsets in this thread, two more in the links I provided, and many many more online that show this exact slot and stud fastening system. The iron strip can't be seen as it is sewn into the corset, but do a google search for "busk" and you can read all about it. On the other hand, I have never seen any image of any knapsack showing anything that remotely looks like this. If you can find me a picture of one, I would gladly conceed the point, but until then a knapsack is as valid a theory as a birdhouse - pure speculation. Corset hooks, on the other hand, have been demonstrated in both patent drawings and period examples from museums in this very thread.

 

[creskol]

Yup, that's your eyes playing tricks. It's not remains of leather you're seeing, it's remains of iron. That would be the iron strip used to attach these fasteners to the corset and keep the shape of corset down the center. There two pictures of period corsets in this thread, two more in the links I provided, and many many more online that show this exact slot and stud fastening system. The iron strip can't be seen as it is sewn into the corset, but do a google search for "busk" and you can read all about it. On the other hand, I have never seen any image of any knapsack showing anything that remotely looks like this. If you can find me a picture of one, I would gladly conceed the point, but until then a knapsack is as valid a theory as a birdhouse - pure speculation. Corset hooks, on the other hand, have been demonstrated in both patent drawings and period examples from museums in this very thread.

Good post, Tony .. I have never seen them use in knapsack applications either.

That's Neat! ... But what is it? ( http://detectingsaxapahaw.blogspot.com/2011_12_01_archive.html )


One of the most common questions I received at the Saxapahaw Holiday Market was "How do you know what all of this stuff is?" It's a perfectly valid question - some of my favorite finds don't look like much unless you know the context of the original piece. For identification of dug relics, the internet is the greatest tool available, although there are also plenty of hard-copy reference books, too. Going to detecting club meetings such as TRR in Raleigh and ONSD in Greensbro are quite helpful, as there are always people there who know a lot more than I do. Perhaps the best way to identify relics, in my opinion, is by using any of the multitude of metal detecting internet forums. As I covered in my second blog post here at DS, some finds are common to many different kinds of older sites. Reading forum posts from other relic hunters with pictures of their recovered objects is a great way to know what it is you're uncovering as you find it. I posted an example of this a few days ago, when a forum post helped me identify a mid-800's parasol slide.

​

If you still don't know, many forum's have a "What is it?" or "ID Help" section. Here's an excellent example of how these collaborative spaces can help us identify some interesting older relics. A thread was started recently in the "Help to ID my finds" section of the Friendly Metal Detecting Forum showing a small copper or copper alloy item, about 3/4" by 3/8". Comments provided some speculation about what it might be, but confirmed that this item has been found at late 1800's to turn of the century sites in a variety of locations. Above is an example that I found at an older home near Saxapahaw.

​

Another user posted a slightly more complete example - it turns out the brass piece was originally attached to a strip of iron. One more piece to the puzzle. The break in the case came when user Cambria09 posted this example of the same item, but this time stamped with the word "Armorside". A google search for that term brought up a lot of interesting unrelated webpages, but one of them stood out.

​

This is an 1895 advertisement for Armorside Corsets, which certainly fits the time-frame of our mystery item better than Jeeps, knights, or robots. Could this be it? Using that information to narrow down our search, I located this original corset, ca. 1885, from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. As you can see, we have found our unknown brass piece in use.

​

Recovering old things is really only a third of this hobby. Researching where to find them and understanding what you have found are both integral to the enjoyment of metal detecting for historical relics. This little brass piece now has a place in my display among other late 1800's to turn of the century fashion accessories. Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed it, and God bless!

 

[parsonwalker]

And I'm also going to disagree unless someone shows me some pictures of some leather corsets, and I don't mean in a modern Victoria Secret catalog. Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me those in the picture have the remains of leather still attached and I'm going to agree with the knapsack fastener theory. The same style of fastener can be used for MANY things. The fact that they were also used on corsets proves nothing. That would be like saying the nails you found have to be from a bird house because bird houses are built with nails. Just my opinion.

As the "finder" here, let me just say thanks again for all the info. Kinda funny, all this debate over the tiniest, most insignificant item in my "keepers" pouch! I agree, these MIGHT have been used to fasten more than just corsets. However, in the interest of full disclosure, the debris around the rivets isn't leather. It's iron (rust) without question. Thanks to everybody . . .

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I'm posting the following suggestion to helpful... NOT "argumentative."

In addition to reading relic-ID books, a big part of my knowledge in relic-ID has come from going to relic-shows (and antique shows) and CLOSELY EXAMINING the metal parts on non-metal objects. Most of us relic-diggers don't pay much attention to the "non-dug" stuff at shows... but you can learn a lot from examining them. For example, when you are at a relic/antique show, pay close attention to the metal parts on leather cartridge-boxes, saddlebags (and other horsegear), "fabric" belts, cloth purses, knapsacks, swordbelts, leather scabbards, metal gunparts on wooden gunstocks, etc, etc.