1840's Trading Post Finds

[Iron Buzz]

Manged to locate an 1840s-ish trading post location yesterday. Got quite a few mystery pieces, so I thought I'd put them all into one post to see if anybody has any ideas. I've numbered each piece, written the material it is made of, and included a ruler for scale.




Note: There may have been a farmhouse nearby in later years, so there could be some period cross-contamination. (no house or sign of it anymore, but one old photograph shows one)

 

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[Iron Buzz]

#2 is brass, bronze, or copper, with a countersunk screw hole. Nice heavy green patina.



#1 looks at first like a chisel, but the tip is very rounded, and the end is not mashed as by a hammer, so I don't think that's it.

 

[Iron Buzz]

#3 is very rusted iron, with a curly hook. Seems to be blacksmith made to me.



#4 is another sort of hook but made with iron rod or heavy iron wire.

 

[Iron Buzz]

My friend guesses that this was for pushing large needles to sew hides together... went in your palm.



#5 is copper, brass, or bronze with a gorgeous thick patina. It is bent, but is round, with a small round nipple at the tip. I think it had a semi-circular slot near the broken edge.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Nice finds I.B. looks like you're onto an interesting site.
Relic #4 is a horse harness clip and #6 is likely a bale seal.

Dave

 

[Iron Buzz]

Bale seals were sometimes that large? The only ones I've found were only about 3/8". This is over 1 inch in diameter.

 

[Goldiver]

Number 2 slightly resembles a Northwest trade gun buttplate but I only see one mounting hole. Maybe the sides of the plate were cut down?

 

[A2coins]

!st one looks like a trunk latch wow that would be an awesome place to hunt

 

[Iron Buzz]

Number 2 slightly resembles a Northwest trade gun buttplate but I only see one mounting hole. Maybe the sides of the plate were cut down?

View attachment 1746549

Damn! I think you may be right about that. The piece is broken about 2 1/2" down from the right-angle bend, and there appears to be part of another screw hole at that edge.

 

[Goldiver]

Damn! I think you may be right about that. The piece is broken about 2 1/2" down from the right-angle bend, and there appears to be part of another screw hole at that edge.

View attachment 1746617

Yes I can see the second screw hole from that angle. From what I have read the ones with the second screw were post 1840 which would fit right in with your time frame. Prior to that time it appears they were fastened with one screw at the top then nailed along the edges. Very cool find!

Steve

 

[Iron Buzz]

Yes I can see the second screw hole from that angle. From what I have read the ones with the second screw were post 1840 which would fit right in with your time frame. Prior to that time it appears they were fastened with one screw at the top then nailed along the edges. Very cool find!

Steve

Any chance you or someone else here can give me the measurement from the top angle to the lower screw hole?

 

[Iron Buzz]

Yes I can see the second screw hole from that angle. From what I have read the ones with the second screw were post 1840 which would fit right in with your time frame. Prior to that time it appears they were fastened with one screw at the top then nailed along the edges. Very cool find!

Steve

Any chance you or someone else here can give me the measurement from the top angle to the lower screw hole?

This piece is 1 3/8" (3.5cm) wide, the upper angle is 1 3/4" (4.5cm) long, and the lower screw hole is 2 1/2" (6cm) from the upper angle, if that helps. It is 3/32 (2.5mm) thick.

 

[Goldiver]

I can't help much with measurements but from what info I can find most of the trade gun buttplates were around 2 inches wide. I haven't found any other musket with a narrower sheet brass buttplate yet. Maybe it was a locally made variant of some sort.

 

[Iron Buzz]

I can't help much with measurements but from what info I can find most of the trade gun buttplates were around 2 inches wide. I haven't found any other musket with a narrower sheet brass buttplate yet. Maybe it was a locally made variant of some sort.

I must admit that I was worried about the width. Also, while not totally unheard of, I think the straight bend at the angle is a bit odd. Looks like most of them had a rounded edge at the top of the butt (eg: butt cross-section was oval)

 

[Iron Buzz]

I can't help much with measurements but from what info I can find most of the trade gun buttplates were around 2 inches wide. I haven't found any other musket with a narrower sheet brass buttplate yet. Maybe it was a locally made variant of some sort.

Actually, this W. Chance & Son trade gun from the early 1840's has a straight edge:




And just to mention it, I found this online book about trade weapons: https://books.google.com/books?id=B... W. Chance & Son trade gun butt plate&f=false

 

[Iron Buzz]

I can't help much with measurements but from what info I can find most of the trade gun buttplates were around 2 inches wide. I haven't found any other musket with a narrower sheet brass buttplate yet. Maybe it was a locally made variant of some sort.

I hunted around on the Internet this weekend and finally sent an email off to somebody that looked like they should know their stuff. Unfortunately, I didn't get the answer that I was hoping for.

Probably some type of buttplate, but I can't tell from what as it's missing a chunk. It's not from a trade musket or you'd see nail or screw holes along its edges.



Michael Simens
Historical Antiques Network LLC.

 

[creskol]

# 1 is a tooth from an OLD spike tooth harrow.
# 3 is off of an iron pot or bucket that the bail was attached to.

What does the back side of # 5 look like?

 

[Iron Buzz]

# 1 is a tooth from an OLD spike tooth harrow.
# 3 is off of an iron pot or bucket that the bail was attached to.

What does the back side of # 5 look like?

Old spike tooth harrow makes 100% sense... that explains the unusual wear pattern at the tip. Thanks. Not so sure you're right about #3, but it is hard to see well from the photos. Not sure you're wrong either, though. Just not ready to buy into it yet. Never seen one (and can't find a picture of one) that had a pointy spiral like that. Not sure why they would do that.

Inside of #5:



Not apparent in the photos, but this piece has the same gorgeous green patina of the brass butt piece.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Some more pictures of #3:

 

[Ia.FurTrade]

Like Creskol said, #3 is definitely a kettle lug, either brass or iron kettle. The curled loop is not that unusual as there are many different styles of kettle lugs.

Iowa Dale