1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

[KYshooter]

1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Does it Have a Twin?

In my post last week about my 1805 dime ( http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,378235.0.html ) that I discovered on January 24, a couple of posters suggested that the circular stain impression on my coin looks like the impring of an adjacent coin, and inquired if I had rechecked my hole.

Here is the coin ...

Poster coltdavis highlighted the apparent imprint here ...

In response, I commented that the only coin small enough to make such an impression would be a Spanish Half-reale.

Yesterday, I suddenly remembered that I had a half-Reale in a container of coins that belonged to my grandfather ... it actually had a silver "shank" added for use as a button at one time.

So ... I got the coin and took this series of photographs, combined them in sequence, and can only come to one conclusion ...

It looks like a match to me. I believe, with almost complete "scientific" certainty, that there was once a half-reale buried with this coin. I just can't find it! I have hunted that spot and fifty yards downhill from it from two different directions.

But, rest assured, I am going to keep looking!

 

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[MikE-Trac]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

wow that is cool, i hope you find it!!!!

 

[Hill Billy]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Could have been a half dime as well laying next to it
But if a coin was laying next to it , it would have been in the same hole wouldn't it?
Why look 50 yards down hill or up hill?
Go back to the hole you dug it from, if there is no target there then most likey there never was.

 

[ggossage]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Your science project is intriguing! It seems to me though, that if an impression was made by another coin, it was most likely made while buried. Has the ground in that area been modified through farming, landscaping or anything else? If no, my suggestion is to go back and dig up your hole and probe the hell out of it!
Good luck!

 

[Monty]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

If you're like me you dig so many holes, you probably would never be able to figure out which one to look in! Monty

 

[KYshooter]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Could have been a half dime as well laying next to it
But if a coin was laying next to it , it would have been in the same hole wouldn't it?
Why look 50 yards down hill or up hill?
Go back to the hole you dug it from, if there is no target there then most likey there never was.

I found the dime on the rear downhill slope, about 20 feet below the crest ... where the hotel stood. After the hotel burned, there was some earth moved ... probably several times over the past 85 years.

My immediate hypothesis is that it was originally buried on the hilltop (with a twin) underneath what was once the "newer" part of the hotel ... built in the 1880's, and that perhaps it was pushed over the side when grading was done for that new construction. (Yes, they did grading "back in the day.") Perhaps the coins were dislodged, separated, who knows. The other coin (if one exists) could be just about anywhere ... buried deep on the hilltop where the foundation was buried, further "downstream" with water flow. Who knows? That's why I checked downhill ... gravity. But, I planned on checking every inch of the place, anyway ...

You have to understand that this target was VERY shallow ... unbelievably so. Just about an inch or inch and a half deep. I simply do not think it was laying in its original dropped location. The scratches on the reverse seem to suggest a traumatic movement, as well.

 

[KYshooter]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

If you're like me you dig so many holes, you probably would never be able to figure out which one to look in! Monty

Oh ... I know where it was ... exactly. I have my waypoint ...

 

[KYshooter]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Could have been a half dime as well laying next to it

You might be right about the half-dime. There's only a .5mm difference between the two. I was simply going with the half-reale because, in all likelihood, it was a much more common coin in the U.S. in the early 1800's.

 

[terpfan]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Great job of forensics. I definitely believe there were two coins together underground for many years. At some point they became separated. Could it be that the area was plowed at some point after the hotel was torn down? Typically plowing was done horizontally on a hillside (to prevent erosion and soil loss), so you'll want to search each side of the original hole. If you can find the original hole, consider digging it out much deeper. I recently found a coin spill that had five old coins in it. At that point my signals were gone. On a hunch, the next day I went back and dug the hole much deeper. Sure enough, I missed one coin that had sunken deeper than the Excelerator coil could find. Good luck!!

 

[Hill Billy]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Could have been a half dime as well laying next to it

You might be right about the half-dime. There's only a .5mm difference between the two. I was simply going with the half-reale because, in all likelihood, it was a much more common coin in the U.S. in the early 1800's.

True, but your coin was obviously in circulation for awhile. Could be either or.
The two in my opinion would have had to have been seperated recently and should be pretty darn close to where you found the 1805.
Either way Great Find!

 

[VOL1266-X]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

I like the logic. The good news is there is very probably other small silver coins there that you will recover. HH, Quindy.

 

[ronbo22]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

I agree that there is a good possibility that there was a sencond coin in contact with your dime. I do however disagree that the odds of it being a half reale as opposed to a half dime. You thesis was based on the fact that there were mor half reals in circulation in 1805. the flaw in your theory rests in the fact that your dime is well worn and may have been lost after 15-30 years of circulation. That scenario, it may be more likely it was a hailf dime. Agree? Disagree?

 

[Nate in Ohio]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Forgive my ignorance of not remembering, but was this that site where a capped bust half dime was recently found? If so, perhaps that was paired with the coin. I'm with you in thinking there was another one. Although despite the dirt being moved, I wouldn't think they would go from being on top of each other to being so far apart that it is difficult to find the other.
At least you got the DRAPED BUST THOUGH!

 

[Bank Runner]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

I agree that there is a good possibility that there was a sencond coin in contact with your dime. I do however disagree that the odds of it being a half reale as opposed to a half dime. You thesis was based on the fact that there were mor half reals in circulation in 1805. the flaw in your theory rests in the fact that your dime is well worn and may have been lost after 15-30 years of circulation. That scenario, it may be more likely it was a hailf dime. Agree? Disagree?

I agree

 

[traverdog]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Another beauty!!!

 

[KYshooter]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

I agree that there is a good possibility that there was a sencond coin in contact with your dime. I do however disagree that the odds of it being a half reale as opposed to a half dime. You thesis was based on the fact that there were more half reals in circulation in 1805. the flaw in your theory rests in the fact that your dime is well worn and may have been lost after 15-30 years of circulation. That scenario, it may be more likely it was a hailf dime. Agree? Disagree?

Actually, I disagree. I've uploaded this insightful article from an old edition of Coin World ... http://coinshooter.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/coin-world-11-17-971-1.pdf. It describes how the earliest silver coins were almost entirely pulled from circulation by 1830. However, there was an ample supply of Spanish silvers of all denominations. It's a really interesting article.

It could be either coin, but based upon this article, I was going with the "odds" that it would be Spanish.

But, either way, it's a stab in the dark.

But I'm still convinced that another small coin was once buried beside this one.

 

[Damon64]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Go get r done!

 

[allen]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

good luck and whatever coin it
is/was i hope you find it !!!

 

[KYshooter]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

Forgive my ignorance of not remembering, but was this that site where a capped bust half dime was recently found?

Nope ... that wasn't me. I wish.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1805 Draped Bust Dime - A "Forensic Investigation"

I agree that there is a good possibility that there was a sencond coin in contact with your dime. I do however disagree that the odds of it being a half reale as opposed to a half dime. You thesis was based on the fact that there were more half reals in circulation in 1805. the flaw in your theory rests in the fact that your dime is well worn and may have been lost after 15-30 years of circulation. That scenario, it may be more likely it was a hailf dime. Agree? Disagree?

Actually, I disagree. I've uploaded this insightful article from an old edition of Coin World ... http://coinshooter.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/coin-world-11-17-971-1.pdf. It describes how the earliest silver coins were almost entirely pulled from circulation by 1830. However, there was an ample supply of Spanish silvers of all denominations. It's a really interesting article.

It could be either coin, but based upon this article, I was going with the "odds" that it would be Spanish.

But, either way, it's a stab in the dark.

But I'm still convinced that another small coin was once buried beside this one.

I would lean towards Half Real over the Half Dime but a close call either way. If you look at my 4 silver coin find from last year, you will see by the wear on the two US silver is minimal and most likely lost not long after the latest dated coin and the 2 other silver coins in the same hole with it were Spanish Silver, the estimated time of the loss is probably around 1829-1830 roughly........(2 Bust Half Dollars with 2 Spanish Silver)

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,318248.html

Don