1785 IMMUNE COLUMBIA

[sonnyjam]

Very Rare 1785 Vermont Copper-Ryder-1 (30-40 Known)

I listed this in the What Is It forum. Rustydigger IDed it to be a 1785 Vermont Copper-Ryder-1.

 

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[hogge]

Replied on "What is it". Definite BANNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[IAsoldier]

Got my vote BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Sweet coin

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Like my momma always says, "ultra rare is as ultra rare does" Banner vote on its way!

 

[Dougshause1]

Extremely rare.. really nice find. Vote banner.

 

[bluehunter1973]

voted

 

[gleaner1]

Never has a more toasted crappy banner been found. Congrats to you on a great rare find.

 

[FoundInNC]

Nice coin and great job to whoever identified it!

 

[Iron Patch]

1785 VERMONT COPPER -
RYDER 1

PCGS No: 536

Rarity: Very Rare

http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/vermont_coppers/vt_ryder_01.htm

 

[DirtDodger]

Congrads on such a rare find & Id by Rustydigger.

This coin is rated a very rare on the Sheldon Rarity Scale, which means: almost never seen or offered for sale.

This usually means less than a dozen or so exist... maybe less.

Its got my vote for Banner!

 

[Iron Patch]

Congrads on such a rare find & Id by Rustydigger.

This coin is rated a very rare on the Sheldon Rarity Scale, which means: almost never seen or offered for sale.

This usually means less than a dozen or so exist... maybe less.

Its got my vote for Banner!

I think very rare is probably more like 30-40.

 

[Iron Patch]

Replied on "What is it". Definite BANNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See I could have saved myself 2 minutes.

 

[williamsingr]

Thats a real cool find, how deep was it ?

 

[dwayne sueno]

very, very sweet find.
congrats and banner!

 

[DirtDodger]

I think very rare is probably more like 30-40.

Generally yes that would be the more likely number however, I based my quoted lower number is two fold:

Stacks lists it as: 1785 Vermont copper. Ryder-1. Rarity-6+. This would place it more in the range of 12 to 20... generally speaking.

ANA lists: B 26-Z (R 1) 1785. A muling; an obverse presumably rejected for use at the Rupert mint is here combined by Machin with the IMMUNE COLUMBIA 1785 die acquired from the Morristown, New Jersey, mint; he also combined this latter with an imitation George III British halfpenny die.

Additionally, with so very few have been offered for sale it is likely to be a lower number. Also with more than half of the known examples in museums or collections, which will likely never come to maket, means it is ever rarer to the collecting public. There are possibly less then 6 or so available collectors.

Great find...

 

[Don in SJ]

When my son found his around 1989, we contacted and then joined C4 club(Colonial Coin Collectors Club) and from all the data I have seen over the years, at the time he found his, there were over 25 then known. Currently listed in Whitman Encyclopedia of Colonial and Early American Coins by Q David Bowers as URS 6 (17-32 known)

I cannot remember seeing any others ground found other than my son's and now this one.
The heavy corrosion on this one hurts its value which is a shame since it has a lot of detail for that variety.

Don

 

[Iron Patch]

Generally yes that would be the more likely number however, I based my quoted lower number is two fold:

Stacks lists it as: 1785 Vermont copper. Ryder-1. Rarity-6+. This would place it more in the range of 12 to 20... generally speaking.

ANA lists: B 26-Z (R 1) 1785. A muling; an obverse presumably rejected for use at the Rupert mint is here combined by Machin with the IMMUNE COLUMBIA 1785 die acquired from the Morristown, New Jersey, mint; he also combined this latter with an imitation George III British halfpenny die.

Additionally, with so very few have been offered for sale it is likely to be a lower number. Also with more than half of the known examples in museums or collections, which will likely never come to maket, means it is ever rarer to the collecting public. There are possibly less then 6 or so available collectors.

Great find...

Even if all are in collections and basically none available that might drive the price but doesn't affect the number known to exist which is what creates the rarity rating. Otherwise a 6+ could be a 7, or even an 8. Given the book price there's obviously much more taken into account than just the rarity because there's many R6s that wouldn't have hardly any value in AG. I had a R6 Machin's mills that is said to now be down to a 5+. The best known sale was 6 or 7k, but the poor ones only get $200-$300. That's a far cry from over 4k in AG.

 

[DirtDodger]

Even if all are in collections and basically none available that might drive the price but doesn't affect the number known to exist which is what creates the rarity rating. Otherwise a 6+ could be a 7, or even an 8. Given the book price there's obviously much more taken into account than just the rarity because there's many R6s that wouldn't have hardly any value in AG. I had a R6 Machin's mills that is said to now be down to a 5+. The best known sale was 6 or 7k, but the poor ones only get $200-$300. That's a far cry from over 4k in AG.

Correct, those in collections don't change the number that exists, I only added that information to emphasis the true rarity. Rarity as such; “very rare” or “extremely rare” when it comes to numbers is subject to interpretation. There are no set standards this is why Stacks used 6+ to denote this. This coin might be R7.

Still there seems to be no debate from the auction records it doesn’t come on the market very often. Vary Rare (per Sheldon) is likely to come to market once a year. It is clear that is not the case, since it has come to market much less than that.

As for value:
Many factors are taken into account when determining value, rarity, state of preservation(grading) and demand. Many coins with much higher mintages are far more valuable due to the amount of collector interest thus high demand. Colonial coppers are not as widely collected as other series. Also, as far as colonial coppers, there are more now on the market due to detector finds and previous unknown ones coming to light. Many populations of these coins have increased. One other factor not readily mentioned is better tracking due to computers and internet which lead to better identification of individual specimens. Computers permitted auction houses and others to track sales and populations more accurately, especially ‘slabbed’ coins.

Please note: book values are only guides... true value is what someone is willing to pay.
I personally don't like many of the guides out there; Blue book, Red Book and Coin Prices due to that the prices in them are what you might expect to have to pay (this confuses many people) to purchase a coin, not what you are likely to get or should get for selling the coin. Huge difference.

 

[The Rebel]

Sweet find!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Iron Patch]

Please note: book values are only guides... true value is what someone is willing to pay.
I personally don't like many of the guides out there; Blue book, Red Book and Coin Prices due to that the prices in them are what you might expect to have to pay (this confuses many people) to purchase a coin, not what you are likely to get or should get for selling the coin. Huge difference.

But the reality is a lot of people do use those books which makes them completely relevant when trying to determine what someone might pay, and I think it's pretty common knowledge that anything rare is determined by what someone is willing to pay. People can have such different ideas of what a coin is worth it's good to have a book or reference that indicates what's the most that can probably be expected... because then you just raise the price 20% like I do!