$100 vs $1000. Question.

[redsummit]

Ok. Id like to know why a minelab quattro which i paid $900 something for, close to $1000, does no better than a $100 or $125 Bounty Hunter from radio shack or walmart as far as halo'ed iron goes. I have dug up alot of iron that sounds like a coin, even when i swing in different directions and adjust sensitivity in 3 billion directions (hahaha now thats funny). Maybe im mistaken when i think the more you pay the better the MD. Now i have read b4 that as of rite now the technology isn't there for that, hmmmm. Really, its 2011. We can land a man on the moon in 1969 but we cant discriminate iron in ANY form with a quality MD? Iron is iron. It shouldn't matter what shape or color i paint it or if its 1 inch deep or 15 inches deep OR A BIG GIANT RUST BALL. Iron is still IRON. It didn't turn into gold or silver or even pewter. So, what the heck. 28 frequencies doesn't seem 2 do anything differently. Just something ive been curious about for awhile.

 

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[Hosensack]

The same reason a quarter will ring on both of them. A haloed nail produces the size and characteristics that it does and that is...just how it is unfortunately, the problem is the nail(iron) has very little to do with it as you will see once it is out of the ground, it merely adds another bit of confusion to the mix when in the ground, therefore it is very difficult to disc out. You must remember any machine is operating at a best guess system, the better the machine and or set up the better the guess. a haloed nail more often than not produces an incorrect guess. That is my non educated(in that field) "best guess" explanation, we have some engineers on here that can better explain the whys and whats about it I'm sure...I hope they do.

A dollar store calculator will still compute pi, a hundred dollar calculator does it more accurately.

 

[Swartzie]

Big iron will signal high. Especially if it is round shape like harness rings or horseshoes or if it's just a big freaking piece of iron. That's just how it works. Your coil generates enough eddy currents in the piece to make it think it found something really conductive. When in all reality it just found a big piece of junk.

-Swartzie

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Ok. Id like to know why a minelab quattro which i paid $900 something for, close to $1000, does no better than a $100 or $125 Bounty Hunter from radio shack or walmart as far as halo'ed iron goes. I have dug up alot of iron that sounds like a coin, even when i swing in different directions and adjust sensitivity in 3 billion directions (hahaha now thats funny). Maybe im mistaken when i think the more you pay the better the MD. Now i have read b4 that as of rite now the technology isn't there for that, hmmmm. Really, its 2011. We can land a man on the moon in 1969 but we cant discriminate iron in ANY form with a quality MD? Iron is iron. It shouldn't matter what shape or color i paint it or if its 1 inch deep or 15 inches deep OR A BIG GIANT RUST BALL. Iron is still IRON. It didn't turn into gold or silver or even pewter. So, what the heck. 28 frequencies doesn't seem 2 do anything differently. Just something ive been curious about for awhile.

I don't know about the Quantro, but my Excal, Sovereign and Safari all null on Iron, telling me it is iron, I also know the E-trac and Exployer will also null on iron..... I get nulls on iron that has been in the ground for years so the halo has to be strong....

 

[Hosensack]

My problems with the E-trac and Safari were only with the smaller and or really curly haloed nails at an early 1800's cellar hole....not just those two machines struggled they just happened to be pretty good with everything but those two scenarios.

 

[okdiggermark]

How about an AT Pro in Pro Mode, with Metal Audio on? Wouldn't that create a low tone? I'd be happy to tell you, but I haven't bought one yet...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

My problems with the E-trac and Safari were only with the smaller and or really curly haloed nails at an early 1800's cellar hole....not just those two machines struggled they just happened to be pretty good with everything but those two scenarios.

Might be, I personally haven't had any problems with any of my Minelabs and iron, but that may be because I have only owned the Excal, Sovereign and Safari.... I can only speak about the E-Trac and Exployer from reading about them... I know a couple hunters who love the E-Trac and Exployer..

 

[Hosensack]

My problems with the E-trac and Safari were only with the smaller and or really curly haloed nails at an early 1800's cellar hole....not just those two machines struggled they just happened to be pretty good with everything but those two scenarios.

Might be, I personally haven't had any problems with any of my Minelabs and iron, but that may be because I have only owned the Excal, Sovereign and Safari.... I can only speak about the E-Trac and Exployer from reading about them... I know a couple hunters who love the E-Trac and Exployer..

Oh don't get me wrong I love the E-trac as well. That was kinda the point of my first reply, there is only so much that can be done...this is pretty mineralized ground as well that is why i don't think it is an iron issue. It is a mixed bag of readings the machine gets from the corrosion mixed with the soil mixed with the iron that on occasion fools any detector the small curly ones just seem to do it more often.

okdiggermark, the AT Pro struggles the same...for the reason above, it is not reading it as iron therefore the properties fool iron audio,nulling etc. whatever technology your machine employs. Because of the size and characteristics my GTI 2500 used to hit bell tone with coin size image sizing all the time, being an 1800's site my heart would race....short lived every time.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

My problems with the E-trac and Safari were only with the smaller and or really curly haloed nails at an early 1800's cellar hole....not just those two machines struggled they just happened to be pretty good with everything but those two scenarios.

Might be, I personally haven't had any problems with any of my Minelabs and iron, but that may be because I have only owned the Excal, Sovereign and Safari.... I can only speak about the E-Trac and Exployer from reading about them... I know a couple hunters who love the E-Trac and Exployer..

Oh don't get me wrong I love the E-trac as well. That was kinda the point of my first reply, there is only so much that can be done...this is pretty mineralized ground as well that is why i don't think it is an iron issue. It is a mixed bag of readings the machine gets from the corrosion mixed with the soil mixed with the iron that on occasion fools any detector the small curly ones just seem to do it more often.

okdiggermark, the AT Pro struggles the same...for the reason above, it is not reading it as iron therefore the properties fool iron audio,nulling etc. whatever technology your machine employs. Because of the size and characteristics my GTI 2500 used to hit bell tone with coin size image sizing all the time, being an 1800's site my heart would race....short lived every time.

Oh, I could tell by your post you were not putting the E-Trac down... I know the Safari is an updated version of the Quantro, but other than a faster processor I am not sure of the other differences.... I do know my Safari nulls on iron.... They will tone on large iron objects like rebar but the signal is obvious and easy for me to tell..... I am still a newbie though and no problem admitting it.......

 

[okdiggermark]

okdiggermark, the AT Pro struggles the same...for the reason above, it is not reading it as iron therefore the properties fool iron audio,nulling etc. whatever technology your machine employs. Because of the size and characteristics my GTI 2500 used to hit bell tone with coin size image sizing all the time, being an 1800's site my heart would race....short lived every time.
[/quote]

Hmmmm. Have you tried raising your coil off the ground about a foot? If you're still getting a hard hit, then it's BIG. Maybe you do this anyway...

 

[Hosensack]

okdiggermark, the AT Pro struggles the same...for the reason above, it is not reading it as iron therefore the properties fool iron audio,nulling etc. whatever technology your machine employs. Because of the size and characteristics my GTI 2500 used to hit bell tone with coin size image sizing all the time, being an 1800's site my heart would race....short lived every time.

Hmmmm. Have you tried raising your coil off the ground about a foot? If you're still getting a hard hit, then it's BIG. Maybe you do this anyway...


[/quote]

Yes and no. With the AT Pro and other machines yes. When I had the 2500 no, that was my first "advanced detector" and I did not know too many tricks of the trade yet.

I don't think it would have made a difference though some of them were at 8". From my understanding and experience the soil gets saturated with the corrosion causing the area around it to become part of the target as far as the machine is concerned...once again I am hoping for one of our T-Net engineers to give a better and educated response on this, as I am only going by what I see in the field and how it relates to what I have read about the halo effect in my own attempts to overcome it.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Pulse Induction machines don't respond to "halo" effect as the rusted iron oxide has insufficient metal content left. Hydrated iron oxide does not give a magnetic signal. So whats most sensitive to iron is least affected by its "halo" but few bother to use a small coil on their pulse machines to scan between the scrap.

Red you comment about size and the iron not turning into another metal is just the problem. Detectors read conductivity not composition and the conductivity readings by meter, tone or whatever, are skewed by the targets size.

To put it simply low conductors turn into high when they are a certain size and high conductors become low so there's no easy solution for the detector designer.

 

[relicminer]

Even my Little Ace 250 chatters with this, but seems to do better than some other machines... Its one of those questions that will make you

 

[redsummit]

So technically it not a metal detector, its a conductivity detector........hmmmmm ok that makes a bit more sense. maybe i should look into a PI detector. Been aware of them for awhile now.

 

[okdiggermark]

So technically it not a metal detector, its a conductivity detector........hmmmmm ok that makes a bit more sense. maybe i should look into a PI detector. Been aware of them for awhile now.

If you don't mind digging everything....talk to Frankn. He's got one. Great machines, but I think there's some cons to go along with those pros.

 

[goldentruth]

I see there are a lot of good comments and is a great subject.
I read a post yesterday here about a guy who had his grandfather take him to a Alaska site armed with a modest $100 MD. He pulled up some healthy nuggets and said Something like this: "It takes a good Metal Detectorman with a good metal detector or a man with a fair working metal detector being on top of the Gold". Gold is where you find it! If you are where big gold is, any working metal detector will do the job.
The guys in the TV show "Goldrush" thought metal detectors were toys? (this guy pulled 60 oz out of their spot for the year of nuggets and none smaller than 1 oz.) (I saw the Gold Rush Show guys move tons & tons dumping heavy into giant rockers and pulling 4oz of gold dust & small nuggets in 7 days with a team of 5 to 7 men to have to pay and the used loader 60 thousand, High efficent pump 40 thousand and rocker thousands. Hummmm
I started into nugget shooting for nuggets and what ever your use will be, check field tests and compairsons,
Sometimes I have been told "Air tests" are not that accurate, ground testing compairisons may prove what you want in a MD. My 2 cents worth, thanks friend & good Luck to you.