WW1 tunnel with 270 dead German soldiers found

[Squirrel322]

Not since the 1970s has there been such an important discovery from the Great War in France. In woods on a ridge not far from the city of Reims, the bodies of more than 270 German soldiers have lain for more than a century - after they died the most agonising deaths imaginable.

Forgotten in the confusion of war, their exact location was till now a mystery - one which the French and German authorities were in no hurry to elucidate. But thanks to the work of a father-and-son team of local historians, the entrance to the Winterberg tunnel on the Chemin des Dames battlefront has been found.....

Continues at link -

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56370510

 

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[GoDeep]

Amazing find and story.

 

[Tpmetal]

Amazing story thanks for posting

 

[Molewacker]

Wow, just Wow!

 

[dognose]

that is an amazing tale.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

I’ve not caught up on my sleep yet and confused the dates.

However, I still think it’s horrible that this is being portrayed as a treasure story.
It’s a war grave.

 

[ARC]

I’ve not caught up on my sleep yet and confused the dates.

However, I still think it’s horrible that this is being portrayed as a treasure story.
It’s a war grave.

? confused dates ?... What I think you are confused on is the OP's intention of posting...The story has nothing to do with "treasure"... and not sure where you got that from.

Just because this is a "Treasure" based forum TreasureNet is MUCH more than that and many posted threads have nothing to do with treasure... but the"common thread" being it was buried / lost.
Beings WE here on TreasureNet carry this same common thread of interest many posts contain buried stories regardless of treasure.

Also... IF it were the Titanic... OR the Hunley Sub.... or Tuts Tomb or any other... is all the same... its history being found... recovered... studied.

There are relatives who WANT answers and knowledge as to IF their ancestors are there.

The OP merrily posted on this site becuase WE ARE HISTORY BUFFS !

Get off your high horse.

Furthermore... I really would like to address this "war grave" thing... By definition... a grave is "A grave is the place where a body is buried."
These people were not intentionally buried with dignity... They were left... due to laziness and the lack of interest in retrieval...Due to plain ole "don't care enough"... or "costs too much"... or whatever... When they say "designated a grave" IMO it is nothing more than a poor excuse to not follow through with a proper burials that would be required... or can't.
Besides... how can you "designate" anything something that has not even been found or documented properly...These people have been waiting to be found... This was not an intentional burial.

IF it were you in there... would you want to be found ? ? ?

Your name / identity known ? ? ?

YOUR STORY TOLD ? ? ?

Bah.

 

[pepperj]

Very interesting story, thanks for sharing it.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Squirrel, I apologize if you thought I was attempting to reprimand you personally for posting the link.

AARC,
My comment was not directed at a Tnet member for posting the story here on a treasure forum.
It is an interesting story.

I got the full gist of the story however there were parts of the story that bothered me.
There was a certain “lost treasure” vibe to the story along side the grave aspect.

“Should there be a full-scale archaeological dig so we can learn more about the conduct of the war and the lives of the men who fought it?”

“whoever gets into the Winterberg tunnel first will find a treasure trove.”

But alongside the soldier's solidarity, there is also the fascination.
"The bodies will be preserved, so they will be like mummies, with skin and hair and uniforms.
"Remember the tunnel was where these soldiers lived from day to day - so there will be all their normal possessions. Every soldier will have a story. It will be the biggest ever reserve of human material from the First World War."

“For 10 years nothing happened. He told the authorities of his find but they refused to follow it up, either because they did not believe him or because they had no desire to open up a mass war-grave.“


“Diane Tempel-Barnett, spokeswoman for the German War Graves Commission (VDK), told German radio "to be honest we are not very excited about the discovery. In fact we find it all most unfortunate".“

Obviously the tunnel was open when the French took the hill, otherwise we wouldn’t have accounts from two survivors of the horror that unfolded while people were trapped. The French made the decision to blast the entrance shut and leave the men buried where they died. It’s a war grave. That’s how the French and German governments are still treating it. You can have your opinion about that as can I.

A side note, you really should stop with the early morning attacks.
It doesn’t suit you well.

 

[releventchair]

Mornin all.

For me ,the war dead should be respected for thier participation.
It's not a race thing or who's side they were on. It's thier putting it all on the line for thier belief. Right or wrong.

The tools and common implements and paraphernalia and how they were employed interest me.
An example is what appears to be a log dog in one of the photo's.
Was it for a retaining wall of timber? Or used to stabilize timbers in the tunnel?

An uncle took pictures of a liberated camp. Liberated too late for many.
Harsh pics. But telling of history without interpretation or emotion doing the outline/painting/coloring....

One picture here shows the shelled area and stressed timber/trees ect..
And brings to mind pics of an earlier war at Gettysburg.
When human emotion is allowed to interpret , when the trees cry out for mercy , so to do/did men in such hellish conditions. But does war really have an emotion?
Or is it merely pounding at each other in grey fogged determined mindsets as opponents until one force capitulates , or a draw is called?
Through history we know it's not that simple.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-story-of-the-wwi-christmas-truce-11972213/

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Mornin all.

For me ,the war dead should be respected for thier participation.
It's not a race thing or who's side they were on. It's thier putting it all on the line for thier belief. Right or wrong.

The tools and common implements and paraphernalia and how they were employed interest me.
An example is what appears to be a log dog in one of the photo's.
Was it for a retaining wall of timber? Or used to stabilize timbers in the tunnel?

An uncle took pictures of a liberated camp. Liberated too late for many.
Harsh pics. But telling of history without interpretation or emotion doing the outline/painting/coloring....

One picture here shows the shelled area and stressed timber/trees ect..
And brings to mind pics of an earlier war at Gettysburg.
When human emotion is allowed to interpret , when the trees cry out for mercy , so to do/did men in such hellish conditions. But does war really have an emotion?
Or is it merely pounding at each other in grey fogged determined mindsets as opponents until one force capitulates , or a draw is called?
Through history we know it's not that simple.

View attachment 1911429
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-story-of-the-wwi-christmas-truce-11972213/

I respect your opinions.

DURING the conflicts, that sentiment might not have necessarily been widely accepted. I can vividly remember stories told to me by several WW2 vets that paint quite a different picture.

The trend of digging people up and treating their belongings as “grave goods” is not being respectful in my opinion, regardless of what you later do with the box of remains. We already have more than enough evidence to document these world wars for future generations. There is nothing new to be learned in my opinion.

Personally I’d have very little respect for foreign invaders attempting to kill my family and take over/destroy my country. I suppose over time, the next generation may not share those same feelings.

 

[releventchair]

I respect your opinions.

DURING the conflicts, that sentiment might not have necessarily been widely accepted. I can vividly remember stories told to me by several WW2 vets that paint quite a different picture.

The trend of digging people up and treating their belongings as “grave goods” is not being respectful in my opinion, regardless of what you later do with the box of remains. We already have more than enough evidence to document these world wars for future generations. There is nothing new to be learned in my opinion.

Ya, I've been told accounts by old vets too.
Their accounts should be at least documented. Many are not , and those soldiers gone now.
Relics only tell part of the tale.
But some are all the testimony , however mute , that anything happened. Forgotten places ,events, people , perspectives...
The feel of the cold , the hot . The sounds and smells , the varied emotions , gone now..

Yes we can visit a museum and peer at relics. Not quite the same as being on site . Smelling the earth. Seeing the faint scars of testimony that tell yes "it" happened right here.. Standing where others did at a different time under conditions far removed , but almost still felt.
A voluntary quiet. A mix of respect for history , and it's figures , and past causes and struggles we try to grasp the meaning and sometimes the justification for. Not all of which seem to fit our "modern" perspective in our own eyes. But that does not change the past...

The difference between looking through a glass pane at a relic vs the entire context of it's prior function and locale it rested on are very different.
No , we don't need to molest the dead. That's an old issue long debated. And in varied degrees we still see-saw over the topic.
When relocation is deemed appropriate (yet another debatable topic) , then we know the attitude deserved while doing so.
In my personal view , seeing the site of the tunnel and the terrain and flora and fauna today would be enough.
But I'll not begrudge preserving relics from within either if done for the intent of education. The time capsule approach.
Exposed to more air , I suspect a preservation process would need to be planned first. And capacity for such ready before excavation.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Well said.

 

[ARC]

My comment was not directed at a Tnet member for posting the story here on a treasure forum.

“Should there be a full-scale archaeological dig so we can learn more about the conduct of the war and the lives of the men who fought it?”

A side note, you really should stop with the early morning attacks. It doesn’t suit you well.

"My comment was not directed at a Tnet member for posting the story here on a treasure forum." - It came across this way... and again this post alludes / mentions posting on a "treasure forum".

“Should there be a full-scale archaeological dig so we can learn more about the conduct of the war and the lives of the men who fought it?” - YES.

"A side note, you really should stop with the early morning attacks. It doesn’t suit you well." - This was not an "attack"... it was a defense... and singular.. not plural.

Listen...

If I feel adamant about something that someone else feels adamant about... at most it is a "debate"... "disagreement" nothing more.

Sorry IF you took it OR want to label as more than that.

Defending a post by another is just that.