Jesuit / Spanish markers and monuments

[Jimbo^]

Good Evening All (or good day depending where you are !)

I've been following the threads in here about lost Jesuit / Spanish treasure,mines and the markers that can be decoded.

My big question is: How many verified finds have there been from decoding these clues ?

I know about the 82 found: 82 found and a few caches uncovered by Brewer and others (later items but the same techniques I guess) but does anyone have evidence (photographic, links or otherwise) to suggest this is a venture worth pursuing ?

For me personally it would cost a lot of money to get involved but I have found some interesting results during my research over the past 2 years and have some funds from successful finds in the UK (all within the Law I hasten to add).

If you don't want to give locations etc away that is understandable, you did the hard work, why let others profit from it ? But if anyone wishes to share a (verifiable) success story then please post or PM. In turn I have some "theories" that may be of interest.

Thank You in advance.

Jimbo^

 

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[Pinwheel]

Good Evening All (or good day depending where you are !)

I've been following the threads in here about lost Jesuit / Spanish treasure,mines and the markers that can be decoded.

My big question is: How many verified finds have there been from decoding these clues ?

I know about the 82 found: 82 found and a few caches uncovered by Brewer and others (later items but the same techniques I guess) but does anyone have evidence (photographic, links or otherwise) to suggest this is a venture worth pursuing ?

For me personally it would cost a lot of money to get involved but I have found some interesting results during my research over the past 2 years and have some funds from successful finds in the UK (all within the Law I hasten to add).

If you don't want to give locations etc away that is understandable, you did the hard work, why let others profit from it ? But if anyone wishes to share a (verifiable) success story then please post or PM. In turn I have some "theories" that may be of interest.

Thank You in advance.

Jimbo^

Hello Jimbo. Here in the good old USA hunters keep their finds very confidential. Asking someone about their finds is like asking them about their sex life. It is something you do not talk about unless you know that person very well. There are reasons for this and if you have been following these threads long you should know why. If not and you keep following these threads you will come to understand why. How ever hearing your theories would be a delight. That is something we talk about a lot here in these threads. If I understand you right, you have already followed some trails to their conclusion and have cashed in on them legally. Were these Spanish trails? Thanks for sharing and welcome aboard.

Pinwheel

 

[Shortstack]

Ditto, on what Pinwheel posted. Professional THers keep their mouths shut and quietly pay the taxes on anything they find. I am not POSITIVE, but I suspect that they declare their monetary gains as "Other Income" on their 1040's. You see, generally speaking, the IRS is not as concerned about where you got your income as they are if you don't pay the "taxman" his blood cut.

Never knowingly cheat on your taxes, federal or state, county or city. Sooner or later, that fact will be discovered and you'll not only have to cough up the tax monies, but they'll also tack on a healthy "interest" (really a fine) that you can't escape. Just take care of it up front, and you won't have that extra worry. When figuring your taxes, whether you do it yourself or you have a professional tax person do it, always claim your LEGITIMATE deductions. Check the latest rules, but basically, you should be able to claim reasonable valuations of your equipment and a percentage of the travel and research costs and employment costs for "helpers".

 

[Jimbo^]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the situation people may find themselves in regarding taxes etc. In the UK here we have Treasure Trove Laws and the Portable Antiquities Scheme as well which generally means anything that is assessed as treasure belongs to the Crown. Generally they will give you the market value of the items you find. What you do finance wise with that money is your own affair....
I have never followed a Spanish trail yet, it is something I continue to research. For me hunting is all about probability, effort to reward ratio.

I was just curious as so many of these hunts end up tapering out into silence. Be that because a find was made and "discretion" takes over or the trail just went cold.

Thanks.

 

[Shortstack]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the situation people may find themselves in regarding taxes etc. In the UK here we have Treasure Trove Laws and the Portable Antiquities Scheme as well which generally means anything that is assessed as treasure belongs to the Crown. Generally they will give you the market value of the items you find. What you do finance wise with that money is your own affair....
I have never followed a Spanish trail yet, it is something I continue to research. For me hunting is all about probability, effort to reward ratio.

I was just curious as so many of these hunts end up tapering out into silence. Be that because a find was made and "discretion" takes over or the trail just went cold.

Thanks.

In the U.S. if you disclose that you have found a "treasure", the federal government will confiscate all of it and may even charge and fine you...........without ANY reimbursements or value sharing.

 

[gollum]

Jimbo,

You would be better to concentrate your searches and research Spanish Mines and Caches, than Jesuit. My friend that found the 82 pounds was very lucky they an engineer on his team that was a numbers wiz. Nothing from that cache has translated to anywhere else that I have been able to find. A lot of information on Spanish Signs and Symbols is out there. I have spent more time than most studying everything Jesuit. I know the people that know about the Jesuits than most Jesuits. NOBODY (I REPEAT NOBODY) has figured out any Jesuit Code.

Anybody that claims to is full of &hit! If they had, they would be posting from their palatial mansion in the Bahamas! LOL The Jesuits have always been the best and brightest of their times.

Best - Mike

 

[Rawhide]

Jimbo I am always happy to open a conversation or share a few pictures of some things I have found. But my interest is mostly the story in the rocks. Im not lazy, just getting to old to dig. It gives me a reason to get out and enjoy a sandwich in peace and quiet mostly. Its very hard to say what is Jesuit out there. Certain types of crosses, a heart with flames, well maybe it is, and maybe it isnt. Most of us have found nothing. Sometimes folks just back off and take a break. Or maybe the reality set in we didnt find anything lol. There has been some long conversations on just how to recover a find. Nothing I can say here. Lots of storys out here about gold and silver, but just a few empty holes, and rumors someone found something every now and then. I believe Gollum is right about the Jesuit being very smart. Of course I also believe someone taught the Jesuits also how to find gold here. To give you a example of what Gollum is trying to say, there was a Jesuit map from China posted on here a few years ago. I am pretty good with navigating and doing numbers in my head. But this this map was beyond its time. I have studied cyphers, and art from the time period. I have had the luck to speak with a few old hands, even some mexican and indian folks. I doubt few can show you a photo of Jesuit anything. But getting happy and sharing a find can get you a lot of unwanted attention. Its a big difference from walking a farmers field to following a trail here. There is plenty already posted so enjoy your search on tnet.

What ever the Jesuit are, they are not the power they used to be.

 

[rangler]

jimbo,
one should not ask about finds, it is the number (1) rule, that if and I say IF you ever find anything you say nothing to no one ever,those that do end up losing everything they found then some, in the end. So asking that question is not.,how you say...."kosher"
one does not tell, and one does not ask, sir
oro only for those who keep their mouths shut
rangler

ps ask the guy with the smiling face kneeling near about 40 pounds of gold bars he found from a fortuitous find some peckings on rocks...the IRS was smiling bigger than he as they ended up with the gold bars and some cash to boot.
he was on the front cover of a treasure magazine for a second or two.. .

 

[rangler]

you got wrong springer, you wish the code had not been broken, and conspicuous consumtion is not prove of anything..but foolhardiness.. but you are right about one thing, it is the Jesuit Code, not the Spanish Code, they wrote it, they mined the gold,they worked millions of Amerindians to their deaths.. paid the quint, built the monuments took the 80% of their bargain with them and shipped it to the Pope ect, it was their ball game..

and they are more powerful today than at any time in history...just more underground. with the Vatican sitting on a basement of 80% of the gold and silver taken from the western hemisphere,for 3 centuries - they can finance any "battle" they want..
think trilateral commission, fed reserve,Illuminati, ect the new socialist world order, population control..bildaburgers any one of a dozen nut ball organizations, world enesco heritage sites, the freaking un,
they want all the oro
rangler

 

[gollum]

you got wrong springer, you wish the code had not been broken, and conspicuous consumtion is not prove of anything..but foolhardiness.. but you are right about one thing, it is the Jesuit Code, not the Spanish Code, they wrote it, they mined the gold,they worked millions of Amerindians to their deaths.. paid the quint, built the monuments took the 80% of their bargain with them and shipped it to the Pope ect, it was their ball game..

and they are more powerful today than at any time in history...just more underground. with the Vatican sitting on a basement of 80% of the gold and silver taken from the western hemisphere,for 3 centuries - they can finance any "battle" they want..
think trilateral commission, fed reserve,Illuminati, ect the new socialist world order, population control..bildaburgers any one of a dozen nut ball organizations, world enesco heritage sites, the freaking un,
they want all the oro
rangler

Rangler,

Looks like your lack of research is putting us at odds again!

They didn't work MILLIONS of Amerindians to death, because most of the Amerindians that died were as a result of smallpox and other diseases introduced by the Spanish. There weren't MILLIONS left.

Also, you posted "they paid their quint". NONSENSE! By Royal Cedula, NO CLERGY was to be involved in mining on ANY level in the New World. Now, we know they DID mine, but because they were not allowed to, they had to do it secretly (for the most part), which meant they didn't give the King diddly squat. Everything they made went from Mission to Cabecera to Colegio, then on to Rome or Manilla. The following quote is from

Edict of February 6th 1705:

................ he gave an account of what had been done, and stated that in the kingdom they had not enforced the prohibition of the law which PRESCRIBES THAT CLERIGOS CANNOT HOLD MINES, SINCE IN MANY REALES THERE ARE CLERIGOS WHO ARE MINERS, EITHER BECAUSE OF THEIR HAVING ACQUIRED THEM BY PATRIMONY, OR BECAUSE NECESSITY HAS CAUSED THE MATTER TO BE OVERLOOKED. AND HAVING SEEN, IN MY ROYAL COUNCIL OF THE INDIES, ALL THE PAPERS ON THE SUBJECT, AND HEARD ON IT IN MY FISCAL, AND HAVING IN VIEW LAW IV, TITLE XII, BOOK I OF THE RECOPILACION DE INDIAS, WHICH PROHIBITS RELIGIOSOS Y CLERIGOS FROM WORKING MINES; AND CONSIDERING THIS TO BE AS GRAVE AN OFFENCE AS IT IS DECLARED TO BE IN THE LAW, I HAVE RESOLVED TO ORDER AND COMMAND, AS BY THESE PRESENTS I DO ORDER AND COMMAND, MY VICEROYS OF NEW SPAIN AND PERU, AND I REQUIRE AND CHARGE, THE ARCHBISHOPS AND BISHOPS OF THE TWO KINGDOMS, TO OBSERVE WHAT IS CONTAINED IN LAW IV, TITLE XII, BOOK I, ABOVE CITED, AND TO CAUSE IT TO BE OBSERVED IN THE FORM AND PRECISELY AS IT IS EXPRESSED; THE SAID VICEROYS AND ECCLESIASTIC PRELATES, OF BOTH KINGDOMS AND PROVINCES.......BLAH, BLAH, BLAH........................ ON ACCOUNT OF THE GRAVE INJURY WHICH RESULTS THEREFROM TO MY ROYAL TREASURY AND TO THE BETTER ADMINISTRATION AND PRESERVATION OF THE MINES.

Do you think three or four Religious Types running mines in the New World would result in "grave injury to my Royal Treasury?" Not likely, Religious Mining must have been happening a LOT for the King to send a special edict on this topic alone!

Best - Mike

 

[Shortstack]

Originally Posted by rangler

"you got wrong springer, you wish the code had not been broken........."


Hey, gollum. Are you also Springfield Either that or rangler is STILL not reading the posts....at least reading them correctly. He referred to you as "springer". Things are getting curiouser and curiouser. LOL

 

[gollum]

Nah. Rangler's Reading is like his research. LOL Springfield and I are two separate fellers. UNLIKE some others, I have NEVER used more than one name per forum. Here and Desert USA, I am Gollum, and on the Lost Dutchman Forum I use my real name Mike McChesney. I have never hidden it.

I even use my own picture holding the Horse/Priest Stone as an avatar.

Best - Mike

 

[gollum]

jimbo,
one should not ask about finds, it is the number (1) rule, that if and I say IF you ever find anything you say nothing to no one ever,those that do end up losing everything they found then some, in the end. So asking that question is not.,how you say...."kosher"
one does not tell, and one does not ask, sir
oro only for those who keep their mouths shut
rangler

ps ask the guy with the smiling face kneeling near about 40 pounds of gold bars he found from a fortuitous find some peckings on rocks...the IRS was smiling bigger than he as they ended up with the gold bars and some cash to boot.
he was on the front cover of a treasure magazine for a second or two.. .

Rangler,

About this, you are absolutely wrong. That was the original story I had heard, until a mutual friend introduced me to the guy a few years ago. That story was BS. The people involved were him, his brother, a treasure hunting partner, and an engineer partner. They found the gold, sold it somewhere in Washington State for about $500,000. The four of them split it and had a big party. Here are a couple of pics (one is me scanning his original film pics next to him, and the second is what the bars looked like up close).



Best - Mike

 

[Springfield]

Nah. Rangler's Reading is like his research. LOL Springfield and I are two separate fellers. UNLIKE some others, I have NEVER used more than one name per forum. Here and Desert USA, I am Gollum, and on the Lost Dutchman Forum I use my real name Mike McChesney. I have never hidden it.

I even use my own picture holding the Horse/Priest Stone as an avatar.

Best - Mike

Yes, even though I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting Mike, my opinion is that he is one of a kind, and the fact is that he and I are two separate people.

Interesting kindling hatchet behind his left shoulder. Oh ... nice photo too.

 

[gollum]

Yes, the gentleman has a very large collection of custom knives, swords, shields, and axes. Really neat place he has.

Did you do something to the picture? Looks like I don't have any teeth! LOL

Mike

 

[Springfield]

Yes, the gentleman has a very large collection of custom knives, swords, shields, and axes. Really neat place he has.

Did you do something to the picture? Looks like I don't have any teeth! LOL

Mike

Huh uh, just cropped it.

 

[rangler]

"Looks like your lack of research is putting us at odds again!

No Sir your still believing in the Jesuit Cover Story is putting u s at odds again..
Of course the CYA principle was at work...cov yer your behind, the real deal was the Jessies were bringing over SECULAR brothers who had not taken the vow,...and the mines were operated in their names, and of course the quint was paid, they wanted to be seen as legal miners, come man think about it..the jessies were a runaway child running wild, with no one to answer to but the Pope and the Pman was saying nothing as he got the 80%~! There still pulling the wool over folks eyes even today...just didnt think it would be you still believing a 300 year old cover story..

This one you have to do your own research, george thompson, of treasurws along the spaish trail...states this in no uncertain terms, millions up to 3 million were worked to death...this was after tje death of millions with the first contract..hundreds of years earlier, than the mining along all of the great spanish trail...

They didn't work MILLIONS of Amerindians to death, because most of the Amerindians that died were as a result of smallpox and other diseases introduced by the Spanish. There weren't MILLIONS left

again you must do your own research donot listen to the jesuit cover stories, this time period was hundreds of years later than the first contact with the disesee ridden spaniards, george thompson, noted western author, states this in no uncertain terms- millions of ameridiands
were worked to death in horrid conditions..read his book, "treasures along the spanish trail..with his bibliogragpies..if you dont know this fact it will open your eyes to the true nature of this group of reglious order....cover stories not withstanding..

Also, you posted "they paid their quint". NONSENSE! By Royal Cedula, NO CLERGY was to be involved in mining on ANY level in the New World.

Dude they bought and sold slaves operated gold and silver mines with thrid parties..concocked cover stories, that then everyone wanted to believe as all where in the payroll.. today there is no reason to believe the cover story unless your on someones payroll...paid to deny..ha~! The truth is more likely you just dont know...just like today, someone says, hey americans are not paying their taxes,someone else says..nonsense, we have a thousand page Cedula [read tax code] that says they must pay or go to jail...yea right same then same now...use common sense and see t hru the veil the jessies pulled over everyones eyes not just you.

Now, we know they DID mine, but because they were not allowed to, they had to do it secretly (for the most part), which meant they didn't give the King diddly squat*. Everything they made went from Mission to Cabecera to Colegio, then on to Rome or Manilla. The following quote is from

* not true as that would have raised the kings ire..and his rough justice..

 

[gollum]

Rangler,

There you are, latching onto something I have been saying for several years. They aren't called "seculars" they are called "Temporal Coadjutors". Get your facts straight.

Mike

 

[Jimbo^]

Hello Chaps,
sorry for the lack of replies, been busy the past few days.
I didn't want to start a war here, it seems to be getting quite heated. Thanks to Gollum, Pinwheel et al for the info and Casca I PM'd you.
This whole subject is so fascinating it may well take me a life time to research it properly and still have no idea. Currently have my head in the books learning everything I can about the Spanish in the new world. I should be in S Cal / Az next year for a while but it'll be in the summer so dam ! it's going to be hot out in the desert !
Anyway, Thanks to all, it's appreciated.

Jimbo

 

[Jimbo^]

Double post, sorry.

Please delete.