Leeward Islands wreck searching

[Jennings]

Welcome everyone! This is of course a bit of a newbie question but I have searched the forum and didn't find the necessary information. I will be organising an expedition into the area soon so would be very grateful for some proper advice regarding diving and wreck searching with magnetometer and then checking readings through diving to max 50 metres depth. As I understand individual diving in Dominica is not allowed, but how is it around other islands? Martinique, Guadeloupe, Antigua and Barbuda, Montserrat, Anguilla, Virgin Islands? Will I be breaking a law anywhere towing magnetometer, provided all necessary precautions, safe distance from traffic, buoys etc. are used? It's more of an adventure trip and we will not be attempting any serious salvage but still would like to check targets by diving with metal detectors. Any help and advice from experienced hunters is much appreciated

 

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[Mackaydon]

i would not risk my boat, equipment nor the freedom of my crew without written permission from the proper authorities to conduct my intended operation. I'm pretty sure anyone giving you advise here that turns out to be wrong, that person will not be in court with you to defend his or her opinion. You say you will not be attempting any serious salvage.......yet would you not pick up gold and silver if found? That is salvage, and such activity is, most likely, controlled by permits or laws against salvaging. Bottom Line. Get written permission from the appropriate authority to conduct your intended plan.
Don......
PS: Welcome to treasurenet !!

 

[Jennings]

Hi Don! Many thanks for your reply. To clarify - we do not intend to dive where it is prohibited, like for example in Dominica where apparently only organised dives are permitted. On the other hand, as far I know independent diving is permitted around Guadeloupe, possibly other islands as well. I also know that for example on Montserrat the law is clear and is basically a copy of British Receiver of Wreck, where you have to notify a designated official if you find anything. We intend to follow the law. The question is if you are allowed to dive independently does it mean that it is OK to use a magnetometer? On most islands it is allowed to use metal detectors so how about magnetometer in shallow/deeper waters?

 

[Alexandre]

Either you are diving or you are conducting survey and treasure hunting...

The question is if you are allowed to dive independently does it mean that it is OK to use a magnetometer? On most islands it is allowed to use metal detectors so how about magnetometer in shallow/deeper waters?

 

[agflit]

How do we know he's not simply a history buff interested in amateur archaeological discovery?..Bet it would be JUST FINE than....

 

[Denniss]

The magnetometer marks you as a professional treasure hunter, the authorities will not look on you as a recreational diver on vacation

 

[Mackaydon]

Agflit,
The authorities don't know that either (the 'innocent' intent); but while the authorities review the situation, you, your boat, equipment and crew may have to wait in custody--all caused by your lack of obtaining a permit or a letter OK-ing your action.
Don.......

 

[Jennings]

That's exactly the idea - a search for a chance discovery by history enthusiasts. Magnetometer and metal detectors are there to make it possible. It seems that some of you are saying that it's OK to look for wrecks by diving but not using any equipment? No metal detectors etc., are allowed when diving? I wonder if anyone here actually knows the laws regarding wreck searching in the area and/or has any such experience?

 

[Mackaydon]

A country's law regarding search and salvage can change with each new administration or even during a particular administration's term. What is written may not be 'current' information. If you are going to invest time and capital, you may wish to consider hiring a marine attorney from within the country you wish to explore. Hopefully, that attorney will also have a connection to that country's naval authorities.
As to 'anyone here' having experience,-- with research, you will find there is a large number of treasure hunters on this site (some active and some may be only lurkers) but their vast levels of experience is not in doubt.
Don.......

 

[Jennings]

Don, with all due respect, but we are talking about an adventure trip for a group of marine history enthusiasts, not a professional salvage operation. We just want to have some fun there and look for shipwrecks with the intention of informing relevant authorities had we find anything. Magnetometer and metal detectors are there to make it interesting and enhance the likelihood of finding anything. Don't you think that such a trip doesn't really warrant hiring a lawyer? As far as I was able to find out, looking for shipwrecks in most of the islands there is not illegal, providing you keep away from protected areas, marine reserves and such like. I just want to hear from people who are or were operating in Leewards and know the practicalities of it.

 

[Alexandre]

Magnetometer and metal detectors are there to make it interesting and enhance the likelihood of finding anything. Don't you think that such a trip doesn't really warrant hiring a lawyer?.

As Don rightly said, you have been warned.

(Seriously, don't do it).

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4300356/british-dad-turkey-coins-snorkel/

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2018-06-22/men-jailed-for-looting-royal-navy-shipwreck-off-kent/

 

[Jennings]

Thanks for your input Alexandre but those are hardly relevant examples - the first guy was arrested at the Turkish airport when trying to smuggle found coins - and yet I clearly stated that we intend to follow the law and inform Receiver of Wreck (or equivalent of such) of any finds. In the second case they were pillaging a protected archaeological site in UK, and again I clearly stated that it is obvious that one should stay away from any protected areas. Not to mention that we're talking about specific geographical locations, when diving in search for shipwrecks is permitted. Here is an example:

While Anguilla does not have any laws preventing the exploration of shipwrecks by divers, it is illegal to sell or take artefacts off-island.

Source: Heritage Corner by Lillian Azevedo: A Tale of ?The Good Counsel?, Anguilla?s First Underwater Archaeological Preserve | The Anguillian Newspaper

 

[Taboga]

Another adventure

 

[FISHEYE]

If anyone asks what you are doing dragging the mag just tell them you lost your outboard motor and want to find it.

 

[ivan salis]

here in the US -- to drag a mag is to be looking for a wreck to salvage --the law looks at it as you are looking for a wreck …..why to find the valuable goods upon it to salvage --to remove things without the proper paperwork is to be a illegal shipwreck looter in the eyes of modern day govts --long ago anyone who found a wreck got to keep what they found --those days sadly are long passed..

 

[CaptEsteban]

You asked this forum for help from experienced " hunters." You have received some good information , but you keep coming back with comments to try to justify the legality of your research. Do, what you want to do, but you can look forward to the possibility of being arrested, all gear/boat confiscation, & more ! SO,,, you fight it out in court,,, you will lose either way ! The government gets your money, or your lawyers do !

 

[Jennings]

CaptEsteban - trouble is I didn't receive any "good information" yet Examples presented were completely irrelevant as they showed smugglers or looters in areas where I'm not planning to go. I'm asking for serious advice about prospective search using electronic equipment. Now I know that in most of those places you can use metal detectors (also when scuba diving) which seems to me much more invasive method of searching than magnetometer or side sonar. Question is how such prospective and non invasive method is treated in those specific areas? Also, as an off topic - I've read that in the Bahamas you were allowed to search for shipwrecks without a licence. Search, not salvage mind you. Is it still the case there? Again, I'd like to hear from experienced searchers who have direct knowledge about the specific area.

 

[Jason in Enid]

CaptEsteban - trouble is I didn't receive any "good information" yet .

You obviously are going to ignore the truth that many here have already tried to tell you, so go do whatever you want but dont start crying when you get arrested.

 

[agflit]

I've read that in the Bahamas you were allowed to search for shipwrecks without a licence. Search, not salvage mind you. Is it still the case there?


The Bahama's has a "Search and Identify" permitting process. That permit only allows you to "Search"..and "Identify" a possible target... NOT..and DO NOT... put anything on deck.

Good luck even getting a " Search and identify" permit..much less a Recovery permit if you even got to that point. The Bahamian government at both local and National levels... is so corrupt that the amounts of money needed to even get access to "talk" to the right" people, much less start the permitting process is beyond onerous.

I have been over twice in the last year to do some search and survey work for a "Search and Identify" permit holder...

I will NOT return...until I see the physical permit and am provided with a legal copy in order to protect myself...Fox Hill is no joke.

ag

 

[Jennings]

Thanks aglift That is very informative and concrete info.

Jason in Enid - thanks for your input but no, I do not want to "ignore the truth". I simply want to find the correct information for the specific area. Probably in some of those places mentioned, similar system to the one used in the Bahamas is in operation. Just have to find out where and how.