Bobadilla
Sr. Member
Hello everybody,
We are mostly speaking in this forum about the wrecks of Spanish treasure galleons. I would like to start new (better said old/new) topic about a little more modern historically proven lost treasures. Cornelius was laughing about Yamashita Gold today. Partly I agree. As you may know, my job and hobby at the same time is underwater archaeology with speciality for treasure hunting. In practice it means any possible information about every shipwreck where COULD be some treasure interests me a lot. Especially if it is in my range.
I will try not to go too much for the details, just basic facts.
Historically it has been proven that in last days of the WW II eleven German submarines left Europe from three different harbours and were headed for America. Both North and South America. The spot where they were supposed to split was the Caribbean. Some of them never reached the Caribbean (mines, air attacks during the navegation through Atlantic Ocean). Five of them made it. Two of them were famous submarines surrendered in Mar del Plata. One of them were sunk in the front of the coast of Brasil and two of them were scuttled somewhere in the Caribbean. I mean intentionally scuttled, not sunk. There was huge treasure of stolen gold, jewelry, pieces of art and gems on board of each of these eleven submarines when they left Germany. Crew consisted of prominents of the Third Reich and of top Nazi scientists. The mayority of military and political prominents headed for Argentina, Chile and Paraguay. 99% of scientists for the USA. From the Caribbean they left as a civils on board of innocent neutral merchant ships as regular passengers to various ports of America. Gold stayed on board of submarines to be recovered later. We could discuss here days and weeks if these treasures were recovered later or not, simply forgotten. I know I know, what you want ot tell me.... Nobody will leave such a booty if he knows where it is. My answer is - you may are wrong. Try to be in the shoes of these people. Hunted, nervious, not knowing anything about their imminent future and of their families. They got new identity, they got money and good state jobs, they established themselves and only one thing they wanted was to live in peace and completely forgotten. To go back for Caribbean needed a party of people. There were set booby traps on submarines, scuba diving was just invented by Jacque Cousteau. Nobody wanted to risk his new life (well settled) by going for some treasure if they did not need it in fact.
I remember that couple of years ago it was hot topic on uboat.net forum about the wreck of German treasure submarine from WW II scuttled in the bay close to the shore of Haiti. I saw the photos of the shape of submarine visible in low tide. It was in God forgotten place, deserted and you could imagine how deserted it was 6O years ago. Ideal place to scuttle treasure submarine in the middle of the night and to escape. I am the person who likes to prove any possible information in field. So after gathering all the possible datas (it was thick file!) I decided to go there by myself couple of months ago. Everything was like it was described by peace corp member who accidentally discovered this wreck in 1998 and made famous photos. But Haiti is not good place to go for holidays and to dive, especially if you are white person. I have absolutely nothing against colored people, vice versa. I have been living among them for more than 20 years and my best friends are among them. But I like my life and poor Haitians see you mainly in a little different way. I knew everything before but my adventurer blood told me GO, so I went. As in commandos stories - quickly in, quickly out. I found the bay, I found the shape under the water. Everything was exactly like it was described by peace corp member who accidentaly found this wreck in 1998 and made three photos of it. I made one dive there. You do not need any diving equipment. Average depth is about 10 meters in the bay. It is old hull of the ship, very narrow ship, not a submarine. You can see even very corroded bowels. I was talking about that to SubSea Research company after that and as I know they went there to make detailed search. It is old German gun boat from WW II, definitely not a submarine. What a pity. But I have one question - what was doing German gunboat in such deserted place??
There must be other possible places where treasure German submarines could be sunk or scuttled on the sea bottom in Caribbean. (I do not mean the story about German sub protruding from reef in about 60 feet of water somewhere in Bahamas waters and who saw it, he forgot after years where the spot was.... please, not. Who posted that, he probbaly read the famous book of Jack Higgins " Thunder Point ". The book starts exactly like that - the find of German submarine incrusted in coral reef couple of miles from the shore where never anybody go diving. The diver died after he found it, of course....)
I am waiting for your opinions, guys!
Lobo
We are mostly speaking in this forum about the wrecks of Spanish treasure galleons. I would like to start new (better said old/new) topic about a little more modern historically proven lost treasures. Cornelius was laughing about Yamashita Gold today. Partly I agree. As you may know, my job and hobby at the same time is underwater archaeology with speciality for treasure hunting. In practice it means any possible information about every shipwreck where COULD be some treasure interests me a lot. Especially if it is in my range.
I will try not to go too much for the details, just basic facts.
Historically it has been proven that in last days of the WW II eleven German submarines left Europe from three different harbours and were headed for America. Both North and South America. The spot where they were supposed to split was the Caribbean. Some of them never reached the Caribbean (mines, air attacks during the navegation through Atlantic Ocean). Five of them made it. Two of them were famous submarines surrendered in Mar del Plata. One of them were sunk in the front of the coast of Brasil and two of them were scuttled somewhere in the Caribbean. I mean intentionally scuttled, not sunk. There was huge treasure of stolen gold, jewelry, pieces of art and gems on board of each of these eleven submarines when they left Germany. Crew consisted of prominents of the Third Reich and of top Nazi scientists. The mayority of military and political prominents headed for Argentina, Chile and Paraguay. 99% of scientists for the USA. From the Caribbean they left as a civils on board of innocent neutral merchant ships as regular passengers to various ports of America. Gold stayed on board of submarines to be recovered later. We could discuss here days and weeks if these treasures were recovered later or not, simply forgotten. I know I know, what you want ot tell me.... Nobody will leave such a booty if he knows where it is. My answer is - you may are wrong. Try to be in the shoes of these people. Hunted, nervious, not knowing anything about their imminent future and of their families. They got new identity, they got money and good state jobs, they established themselves and only one thing they wanted was to live in peace and completely forgotten. To go back for Caribbean needed a party of people. There were set booby traps on submarines, scuba diving was just invented by Jacque Cousteau. Nobody wanted to risk his new life (well settled) by going for some treasure if they did not need it in fact.
I remember that couple of years ago it was hot topic on uboat.net forum about the wreck of German treasure submarine from WW II scuttled in the bay close to the shore of Haiti. I saw the photos of the shape of submarine visible in low tide. It was in God forgotten place, deserted and you could imagine how deserted it was 6O years ago. Ideal place to scuttle treasure submarine in the middle of the night and to escape. I am the person who likes to prove any possible information in field. So after gathering all the possible datas (it was thick file!) I decided to go there by myself couple of months ago. Everything was like it was described by peace corp member who accidentally discovered this wreck in 1998 and made famous photos. But Haiti is not good place to go for holidays and to dive, especially if you are white person. I have absolutely nothing against colored people, vice versa. I have been living among them for more than 20 years and my best friends are among them. But I like my life and poor Haitians see you mainly in a little different way. I knew everything before but my adventurer blood told me GO, so I went. As in commandos stories - quickly in, quickly out. I found the bay, I found the shape under the water. Everything was exactly like it was described by peace corp member who accidentaly found this wreck in 1998 and made three photos of it. I made one dive there. You do not need any diving equipment. Average depth is about 10 meters in the bay. It is old hull of the ship, very narrow ship, not a submarine. You can see even very corroded bowels. I was talking about that to SubSea Research company after that and as I know they went there to make detailed search. It is old German gun boat from WW II, definitely not a submarine. What a pity. But I have one question - what was doing German gunboat in such deserted place??
There must be other possible places where treasure German submarines could be sunk or scuttled on the sea bottom in Caribbean. (I do not mean the story about German sub protruding from reef in about 60 feet of water somewhere in Bahamas waters and who saw it, he forgot after years where the spot was.... please, not. Who posted that, he probbaly read the famous book of Jack Higgins " Thunder Point ". The book starts exactly like that - the find of German submarine incrusted in coral reef couple of miles from the shore where never anybody go diving. The diver died after he found it, of course....)
I am waiting for your opinions, guys!
Lobo
Tropical Tramp say his wrecks are on the western coast....
