A few "bowls"

[kuger]

My people have always referred to them as Chamaca rocks as do most all of the tribal elders here.Here are a few of my favorites and a couple more I have liked........

 

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[SOHIO]

Wow I wish I had a few of those sitting around in my yard....very cool

 

[kuger]

Those actually arent mine.They were at a Ranch I worked on.....It isnt uncommon to see that on the big ranches,and I wish I would have taken more pictures through the years.It just wasnt something I really thought about as being out of the ordinary......I keep mine in the house and have a pretty good collection.The two I pictured are my favorites because of the stories behind them.The bigger one about killed me,and took 5 trips to get it out.Its five "sisters",are still there,and they will stay there,where they belong

 

[BosnMate]

Those actually arent mine.They were at a Ranch I worked on.....It isnt uncommon to see that on the big ranches,and I wish I would have taken more pictures through the years.It just wasnt something I really thought about as being out of the ordinary......I keep mine in the house and have a pretty good collection.The two I pictured are my favorites because of the stories behind them.The bigger one about killed me,and took 5 trips to get it out.Its five "sisters",are still there,and they will stay there,where they belong

They were so common when I was a kid, it wasn't out of the ordinary, I thought everyone had more than one. Every ranch had either a porch or a yard full of them. Where the heck did they all go. I guess when they started growing feet people started putting them inside. And of course ranches become estates and estates sell things. I remember Mom buying a bowl from the estate of the Jack ranch. My brother has it now, it's a beautiful bowl, cost her $35 and she couldn't turn it down. Speaking of the Jack Ranch, mom's side of the family homesteaded near Shandon, and they all knew Howard. I didn't know him but heard stories, and I'm familiar with the country. I was sent this picture via email a long time ago, it was taken in the Temblor Range behind, well east of Shandon, and shows what can happen when it finally rains at the right time of the year out there. Not trying to hijack your post, but being that you spent time in the Carrizo Plains, you probably also trapped the Jack Ranch. When I was a kid that was the last intact Spanish land grant, you could barely see the home place out across the flat north of hiway 40 there at Cholame, where James Dean got himself killed. These bowls were so common on my step kids ranch, their family tradition tells that when the property was first settled back in the 1850's they used the Indian bowls to set corner posts in the fences.

 

[kuger]

They were so common when I was a kid, it wasn't out of the ordinary, I thought everyone had more than one. Every ranch had either a porch or a yard full of them. Where the heck did they all go. I guess when they started growing feet people started putting them inside. And of course ranches become estates and estates sell things. I remember Mom buying a bowl from the estate of the Jack ranch. My brother has it now, it's a beautiful bowl, cost her $35 and she couldn't turn it down. Speaking of the Jack Ranch, mom's side of the family homesteaded near Shandon, and they all knew Howard. I didn't know him but heard stories, and I'm familiar with the country. I was sent this picture via email a long time ago, it was taken in the Temblor Range behind, well east of Shandon, and shows what can happen when it finally rains at the right time of the year out there.View attachment 717036 Not trying to hijack your post, but being that you spent time in the Carrizo Plains, you probably also trapped the Jack Ranch. When I was a kid that was the last intact Spanish land grant, you could barely see the home place out across the flat north of hiway 40 there at Cholame, where James Dean got himself killed. These bowls were so common on my step kids ranch, their family tradition tells that when the property was first settled back in the 1850's they used the Indian bowls to set corner posts in the fences.

I dont beleive in Hijacks Bosn,especially from you!!!
Yes,I did spend a whole lot of time on The JacK!!!Another very special place in my heart.
I have often wondered the same thing,about what is to happen to many of the bowls....or rather what HAS happened to them.The ones pictured above were from a large tract of land that is all agriculture now,and the Grandmother told me there were literally hundreds of these bowls turned up when the were tilling the ground to plant.I found an irrigation ditch that was lined with broken bowls!!!I tried talking her kids ut of a few of them,so they would be preserved and they werent going for it.......last I heard they were all gone.My own cousin cemented many of my great grandparents collection int a wall he built in his back yard....then moved!I will never forgive him for that. Great post Bosn,thanks!!


Here is a point I about sat on,near the Jack Ranch

 

[digging440yrs]

B E A U T I F U L

 

[BosnMate]

"Here is a point I about sat on,near the Jack Ranch"

That is an awesome find, they don't come around very often anymore.

There must have been a huge climate change out in that country, because looking at the area like a cattleman, I'd be looking at the carrying capacity, which for the city folks means how many acres does it take to grow enough food for one cow for one year, and out there at a glance one would think probably 100 acres plus if they weren't fed hay in the winter. In that aired land now days, how many acres would it take to support one hunter gather human for a year. Driving across there you'd think there isn't enough land at all. With all the evidence of large populations of early people, the rains must have come much more often and there must have been plenty of feed for elk, antelope and deer, and no doubt the griz was out there also. Grizzley's were soaking in the hot springs in Paso Robles when the Spanish arrived.

 

[kuger]

Yea no kidding!!!Tough life for sure.Speaking of grizzlies,if you have no read the book "Bear in Mind",the story of the calif grizz,you should!!I found a jaw bone from one on the Tejon Ranch and there are still grizz traps....wood and stone.I have pictures of some rock ones made by the Spanish,but never took pictures of the logs ones on the Tejon.
What do ya think the Indians thought of all the earth quakes in that country??Ha!HA!

 

[Tnmountains]

Man you guys got some good history out of those areas. Glad it is not lost. I guess clay was an easier bowl for here though stone bowls are found on occasion. I guess it is all in what kinda rocks are in your area.

 

[kuger]

Yea,never have found any part of a pot here,have found sherd's in Nevada but nothing whole.These Indians were world class basket makers,so they didnt need pots

 

[Wildcat1750]

I love all these stories about the earlier days of finding artifacts. Times sure have changed.

 

[old digger]

Interesting Thread! Has their been any evidence as to what type of ''grains'' were ground in these pots? As was pointed out, at
one time the water tables were much higher than they are presently, to merit the amount of ''pots'' that have been found.
Thanks for sharing Kuger.

 

[BosnMate]

Interesting Thread! Has their been any evidence as to what type of ''grains'' were ground in these pots? As was pointed out, at
one time the water tables were much higher than they are presently, to merit the amount of ''pots'' that have been found.
Thanks for sharing Kuger.

California they ground a lot of acorns, other than that out in that arid country they were probably hunter gather-ers. At the coast around Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo the weather was mild and they lived right in their grocery store with abundant sea food and growing plants. Out where we've been talking about the Indians no doubt also gathered grass seed, which is all the desert Indians in Nevada had, no oaks out there, so no acorns, but they did have pinion nuts in Nevada and they ate grasshoppers, as did the California Indians. Driving through that Cholame country right now you wouldn't think there were any Oak trees, but up in the mountains oaks aren't very far off, and they would have traveled to them. They also ate cattail root and the top seed pod on cattails according to one book I read. I'm sure the people we are talking about had to move a lot, following the food supplies. Northern California Indians ate clover, and in fact still do up around Covello, I saw families gathering clover when I was shoeing horses in that country. Also dried meat and or grasshoppers could be pounded into pulp, seed and or acorn flour could be mixed in with it, and melted fat mixed in, and that's called pemmican and has a long storage life, and food storage is something all people need.

 

[kuger]

Well said Bosn,acorns were the major staple,and bad acorn years they would actually eat what we call Buckeyes,both are bitter,especially Buckeyes,so it was quite a process to get them down to meal,Its not too bad then.Man,I love pinion nuts!!!Very good!

 

[Tnmountains]

Well said Bosn,acorns were the major staple,and bad acorn years they would actually eat what we call Buckeyes,both are bitter,especially Buckeyes,so it was quite a process to get them down to meal,Its not too bad then.Man,I love pinion nuts!!!Very good!

Thy say nuts were a staple in yearly life as it was the only food that could be kept for any time. So every year like clock work was the nut harvest and tools. I sure would like a recipe for real pemmican.

 

[kuger]

Thy say nuts were a staple in yearly life as it was the only food that could be kept for any time. So every year like clock work was the nut harvest and tools. I sure would like a recipe for real pemmican.

Pretty ingenious how they would store acorns too.I have pics of them somewhere,I will post if I can find.
Richard,I shot a Bison with my bow in 2000,and gifted a great amount of the meat(some of the best meat I have ever had)to some local Indians,I have known for years.They in turn gave me some traditional Pemmican,it was unlike any Jerky I have ever made and I have tried and failed to replicate it to this day.Of course they wouldnt tell me exactly how to make it!!!They claimed they did........but obviously not!Ha!

 

[BosnMate]

A few years ago -- time, date, and place escape me right now, but it was in Montana or Wyoming, someone doing construction work or farming cut into a cache of pemmican. It consisted of dried meat of course, and some sort of berry, like elderberry or some such, probably dried and then ground up seed and all, and all of it mixed in lard, lots of lard. The outside 6 inches were spoiled, but inside that the stuff was still good and those people had a chance to taste it first hand. This is from an article in a magazine catering to buckskinners, and all that is filed away in my wolf trap computerized mind, trouble is I landed on my head one time to often, and the recall button is busted, so I can't be of much more help. That was probably in the late 70's or early 80's, and the reason I'm posting this is to show how long the lard blocks the air and water and preserves it.

 

[blindpig]

Hay Kuger ,. those are some nice mortar bowl's for sure !
Real shame ,. them disappearing from the old ranches ,. all to common of a story down here in So. Cal .
Had an old lady freind [ she was born 189?] ,. told me many an old story ,. on the subject of metate's ,. she told how there use to be about 20 or so bowls & metates about the ranch , and when she was about 3 or 4 yr's old it was her job to keep 'em full of water for the chickens ,. as she finished the story ,.she looked around,. and said ,.SH!T! I have no idea where the hell they all went !! [ she did have a bit of a potty- mouth]
Anyway ,. down here in San Diego , are metate's & mortar's are most often made from more irraguler shaped boulders [as in the pic] , but the the more "refined" bowl's arn't unheard of . Also in the pic of my "mortarish" type metate ,. I have it matched up with a mano , which is most correct for down here .
I was also a bit suprised to read ,.that pottery isn't common up your way ,.. quite common down here in S.D. ??
Well , nice to see some stuff from around Ol' Cali
thanks again ,. Joel

 

[kuger]

Morning Joel!Yea,it is sad,and I am told that they would break the bowls in half when the woman died?That is the case at Clear Lake I guess,I have not found enough broke ones to say......I did find a perfect half to one just last week!They would also store them upside down so they would not gather water and freeze,which would break them.I have found bits of pottery in other places closer to trade routes but none here.I wonder if you ave it down there from that Mexico,Arizona influence?Also some I have from some places are just flat ugly,but they served there purpose I guess,or more pride in some?

I found a slab of mortar holes yesterday that I had never seen,am going back today to snap a few pictures

 

[blindpig]

Kuger ,. I'm going to wing it a bit here ,.. with a few "fact" checks to spur me along ,..
One step back , pre-pottery So Cali,. the camp's[?villages?] were most common along "open" ridge tops . Here you can find many metate's and lithic flakes ,.. projectal point's & other tools very rare ,. and differant then the Costal Cottonwood arrowhead's .
I believe ,.about 800 yr's ago there was a huge cultural change here , with a Shoshoneon influance from the desert/moutains . The camp's & villages moved from the more open area's to smaller & more "defendable"? hillside terraces . Arrowhead's &pottery very common here.
I found this on the puter this morning ." The employed paddle & anvil pottery here in So. Cali did develope in Mexico . Via the Yuman peaples along the Colorado River ,. it came across the desert to the moutians of San Diego & So. Cali. ,.. This fits my story line ,. so, I'm going with it !

Anyway this is how this pig see's it ,...Blindpig