M1917 helmet?

[B105FA]

I just recently aquired a WW1 american helmet with the heat stamping under the brim indicating "UC 308". Any chance that this was an american manufacturer? I know 'Z' is the most common because I have a few of those, but I read somewhere that the letters "X" and "Y" was also used. I find no info at all on "U". Was briefly listed on another blog that it was american also. If so, is it rare? I know the "X" is quite rare. I have seen "Y" on occasions. As for "ZA, ZC, ZD and ZJ', those are quite dominate. So can the letter "U" be more rare than the "X"? I'll include pics. Thanks.

 

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[Retired Sarge]

B105FA as to rarity of the helmet that I can't answer, there is no list that shows the heat stamping linked to a specific manufacturer, but the UC marking is an American marking. Another way to tell is by the shape of the rivets, on American ones they are normally domed on both sides. Post a few pictures of your helmet, the US used them up to the early part of WWII so, looking at the liner one can tell if it's a WWI or WWII configured helmet.

The problem with the US ones there is no printed list that shows all the markings/stamps. I have one posted on this site, and continue to add to it. So I guess I need to update my list.

Hope this helps.

Known steel suppliers of the WWI British helmets:

FS = T. Firth & Sons Ltd Sept 1916 – 1918
BS = W. Beardmore & Co Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
HS = Hadfield Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
V = Vickers Ltd 1916 – 1917
MS = Miris Steel Co. Ltd 1916 – 1917
A = Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd 1916 – 1918
F = Thomas Firth and Sons 1916 – 1918
O = Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. 1916 – 1918
B = Bury's & Co. 1916 – 1918

Known makers of the WWI British helmets:

D = James Dixon & Sons Dec. 1915
HW = Hutton & Sons Dec. 1915
HH = Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. Dec. 1915
M = J&J Maxfield & sons Dec. 1915
R = John Round & Sons 1916
V = W&E Viener Dec. 1915
MLS = ?
FKS = Possibly Thomas Firth & Son
M&S = Possibly Maxfield & Sons.

Known makers of the WWII British helmets:

BMB = Briggs Motor Bodies Ltd of Dagenham
F&L = Fisher & Ludlow Ltd of Birmingham
GSW DP & H = General Steel Wares Department of Pensions & Health
HELMETS LTD = Helmets Ltd of Weathhampstead
RO&Co = Rubery Owen Co Ltd of Leeds (Spelled as RO CO or RO&CO)
WD = William Dobson & Son of Birmingham
? = Patent Pulp Manufacturing Co Ltd
JSS = Joseph Sankey & Sons

Known makers of the WWII British liners:

VERO II
TTC 2
FFC II
FFL II
V.M.C II
"N" LTD II
HELMETS Ltd I (Helmets Ltd of Weathhampstead)

Known makers of the WWII Canadian helmets:

CL/C = Canadian Motor Lamp Co
AG/C = Aluminium Goods Co
GSW = General Steel Wares

Known makers of the WWII Canadian liners:

Baskstay Standard Co (Also made chinstraps)
Viceroy Manufacturing Co = C/Arrow or VMC

Known makers of WWI American helmets:

Edward G. Budd Manufacturing Co. 1,150,775 made
Sparks, Withington Co. 473,469 made
Crosby Co. 469,968 made
Bossett Corporation 116,735 made
Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co. 268,850 made
Worchester Pressed Steel Co 193,840 made
Benjamin Electric Co. 33,600 made

Known heat-stamp markings in WWI American helemts:

UC
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC Columbian Enamaling and Stamping Company
ZD
ZF
ZH
ZJ


Mike
USAF Retired

 

[Retired Sarge]

There are a slew of other countries that used the Brodie style helmet. This link has some of them listed with the markings that can be found in them. Figured with that site and my ever expanding list it would give some helmet collectors a good stepping off point to use in identifying their helmets.

Brodie Manufacturers - The Brodie Helmet and its derivatives

 

[B105FA]

Thanks Mike. There is a problem with the fact that the helmet is missing both the liner and straps but the rivets are not split but domed copper like. I heard that "U" is rare as well as "X" for american helmets and just wanted to make sure. I have a number of "Z" helmets also. British helmets I do not collect because those appear to be a dime a dozen. Again, thanks.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I've heard the same thing B105FA about the rarity but can not find any definitive data to substantiate that claim. I wish there was more information available on the internet on the M1917 and M1917A helmets. What little information I've learned and collected has come from reading site upon site, trying to fill in the blanks in my data.

One of the reasons why my list is always being updated, plus I carry it as cheat sheet when I go looking for helmets.

 

[B105FA]

 

[B105FA]

Here is what is suppose to be "UC308" marking. I know it's a lousy pic but that's the closest I can get. Again, you have been quite of great help. Now to look out for that "X" marked helmet. Hmmm, "ZF and ZH". Those I have not seen either.

 

[Retired Sarge]

If you come across any helmets with markings other than the ones I have listed would you be so kind as to foward the information to me?

 

[B105FA]

Sure thing, I will. I was on E-Bay earlier and found a couple helmets with "ZB" stamped on the brim. I guess you can add that also to american manufacturers.

 

[Retired Sarge]

List updated with new code, wow the list is growing!

 

[RBruce]

Here's a M1917 Type helmet I'm trying to identify

It is marked ABL over 1949 over X.B over 1951 on the liner assembly. Any ideas? Value?

 

[Retired Sarge]

Belgium made copy of the British Mk.II helmet, made from 1949 - 1952. ABL is Armee Belge/Belgische Leger which makes this the Army version (Based on color and the ABL stamp). Prices seem to be around the $40.00 range plus or minus, depends on how bad the person wants it!

ABL = Armee Belge/Belgische Leger (Belgium Army in French and Netherlands, the languages spoken in Belgium)
1949 = The model (First made in 1949 hence the model number)
X.B. = Xavier Buisset, Vilvoorde, the manufacturer
1951 = The year of production

 

[Stan305]

Thanks Mike. There is a problem with the fact that the helmet is missing both the liner and straps but the rivets are not split but domed copper like. I heard that "U" is rare as well as "X" for american helmets and just wanted to make sure. I have a number of "Z" helmets also. British helmets I do not collect because those appear to be a dime a dozen. Again, thanks.

I have a question. Where are you finding information on “X” stamped helmets? I just acquired one with an X stamp and I am looking for information on this helmet. Thanks

 

[Retired Sarge]

I have a question. Where are you finding information on “X” stamped helmets? I just acquired one with an X stamp and I am looking for information on this helmet. Thanks

A good place to post questions on US military equipment is the US Miliataria Forum.

U.S. Militaria Forum

They have a section just for WWI era equipment.

WWI US MILITARIA - U.S. Militaria Forum

Sorry couldn't give you a better answer. Most of my research notes are packed away, plus I can't recall off the top of my head any sites with the X helmet code information. Give me a day or two to see what I can find. The information below is what I can confirm with the research I've done, the list is not a definitive list, just what I have actually seen. So if you have a X marked helmet I would love to see pictures of it and the markings.

Known Helmet Manufacturers of WWI American M1917 helmets:

Edward G. Budd Manufacturing Co. 1,150,775 made
Sparks, Withington Co. 473,469 made
Crosby Co. 469,968 made
Bossett Corporation 116,735 made
Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co. 268,850 made
Worchester Pressed Steel Co 193,840 made
Benjamin Electric Co. 33,600 made

Known Heat-Stamp Markings of WWI American M1917 Helmets:
(This list is based on what I have actually seen, more heat stamps might be out there)

UC
XH
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC
ZD
ZE
ZF
ZG
ZH
ZJ


Known Liner Manufacturers of WWI American M1917 Helmets:

Leatherwear Co of America - Brooklyn - New York.
A.J.Bates - Webster - Massachusetts.
L.C.C.&.Co - 1917.
R.H.Long.&.Co - 1917.
A.E.Little Co - Boston.
F.M.H.S. Co.

 

[Jameslm92]

Great war helmet.

Hello my name is James Moore when cleaning out a shed in my backyard I found a box. I opened it and found a couple things I found to be interesting I am reaching out for assistance in figuring out the history of these items. My grandfather was a WWII, Korean, Vietnam veteran this raised a question as to why he would be in possession of a great war helmet. So I will attach a couple pictures. I am thinking it might have belonged to his father. Thank you for your help.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Hello my name is James Moore when cleaning out a shed in my backyard I found a box. I opened it and found a couple things I found to be interesting I am reaching out for assistance in figuring out the history of these items. My grandfather was a WWII, Korean, Vietnam veteran this raised a question as to why he would be in possession of a great war helmet. So I will attach a couple pictures. I am thinking it might have belonged to his father. Thank you for your help.
View attachment 1647223View attachment 1647224

What you have is a M1917A1, which is WWI style helmet that was updated.

Numbers stamped on the bottom side of the shell would tell which version you have. It could be a WWI M1917 helmet refursbished and updated to a M1917A1 helmet in or around 1936, or a new made M1917A1 manufactured around 1941. The way to tell it's a M1917A1 configuration versus M1917 is the liner. The M1917A1 was used in the early stages of WWII prior to the introduction of the M1 Helmet.

Sorry for the delay in answering your question, been busy with Hurricane Michael recovery of my severely damaged house. I will be more than happy to help you with your helmet questions.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Hello my name is James Moore when cleaning out a shed in my backyard I found a box. I opened it and found a couple things I found to be interesting I am reaching out for assistance in figuring out the history of these items. My grandfather was a WWII, Korean, Vietnam veteran this raised a question as to why he would be in possession of a great war helmet. So I will attach a couple pictures. I am thinking it might have belonged to his father. Thank you for your help.
View attachment 1647223View attachment 1647224

On the bottom side of the helmet rim, there should be a series of numbers/letters stamped into the shell. These numbers will tell us if it's a WWI era or Post WWI era shell. On your helmet they are on the left side of the picture. Using a cell phone I can't make them out all they way.

Post back with the numbers and I'll tell you which it is, regardless it's a sweet looking lid. Other than an occasional dusting don't go overboard on cleaning it, this will only decrease the value of the helmet should you decide to sell in the future.

ETA: More staring at the photo your shell is marked HS ?? so that makes it a British made Mk 1 converted to M1917A1. The HS denotes Hadfield Ltd, who made helmets from 1916 to 1919.

Before the US began making what is called the M1917 helmet, the British supplied Mk 1 helmets to the US as a stop gap measure until we could ramp up production. So you'll see a lot of British made Mk 1s in US service/use. These British made, US used Mk 1s were still in US stocks when we began updating them to the M1917A1 so you'll see both US made M1917s and British made Mk 1s upgraded to US M1917A1 standards. So your helmet after modification was used just prior to and in early WWII service whether in the US or overseas until replaced with the M1 helmet.

That's not to say the helmet didn't see WWI use overseas or in the US either. Figured I'd add that remark.

The American M1917 is a US made copy of the British Mk 1 helmet, with only a few differences such as how the liner or chin strap buckles/brackets are attached and how the chinstrap is manufactured.

Hope all my babble makes sense for you, and gives you plenty of information. If you have any additional questions on this helmet or others please don't hesitate to post here and reach out to me.

From this vet, thank you for your grandfather's and possibly great grandfather's service.

 

[Jameslm92]

Ok I think i got a good shot of the digits you are speaking of. They are the only ones I can really make out. Once again thank you again and I hope its the right ones if not let me know. Yes my grandfather is in my mind a very honorable man for his service. My father also served for over 20 years in the Army retiring as a WO2 so an interesting life I have had my grandfather was attached to president Kennedy's Yacht that sailed around Washington area. I just found his orders for that, and my father was the personal medic attached to General Omar Bradley. I remember as a kid playing around at his house. On Fort Dix if I remember correctly. We where stationed in Germany when President Reagan bombed Libya and we got military escort home from school in Giessen. If all that history isnt enough just think about how Army Navy games where at our house. So yeah I am proud of my military haritage and so heartbroken when my friend got in a car crash and I broke my back 2 days before I signed my last papers to join the Navy. My Father and grandfather have passed but I means a lot to me to honor them and your words bring me pride and appreciation. So thank you also for your service and helping me track down this helmet and see if it opens a new legacy for my family.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Ok I think i got a good shot of the digits you are speaking of. They are the only ones I can really make out. Once again thank you again and I hope its the right ones if not let me know. Yes my grandfather is in my mind a very honorable man for his service. My father also served for over 20 years in the Army retiring as a WO2 so an interesting life I have had my grandfather was attached to president Kennedy's Yacht that sailed around Washington area. I just found his orders for that, and my father was the personal medic attached to General Omar Bradley. I remember as a kid playing around at his house. On Fort Dix if I remember correctly. We where stationed in Germany when President Reagan bombed Libya and we got military escort home from school in Giessen. If all that history isnt enough just think about how Army Navy games where at our house. So yeah I am proud of my military haritage and so heartbroken when my friend got in a car crash and I broke my back 2 days before I signed my last papers to join the Navy. My Father and grandfather have passed but I means a lot to me to honor them and your words bring me pride and appreciation. So thank you also for your service and helping me track down this helmet and see if it opens a new legacy for my family. View attachment 1656862

I know the pride of being in a military family quite well. My dad was career USAF he did 26 years, my brother did 20 in the USAF, I did 23 in the USAF before being medically retired, and my oldest did 10 years in the Marines. So our family had nonstop military service from Jun 1962 to Jun 2017. Growing up in a military family is a special and unique honor that only "Brats" like us understand, and I wear the term "Brat" with honor.

The codes on the helmet confirm it's a British made Mk1 WWI era helmet upgraded to M1917A1 standards just prior to WWII. The helmet could very well have been issued to your relative prior to or during the early part of WWII. So document the helmet history and information, and cherish the highly probable connection to your relative, display it in his honor. We lose our heroes everyday and all we have left are the memories and when lucky something they touched, wore, used.

Again thank you for your families service and sacrifices to this great country of ours. Also thank you for your attempt and willingness to join up, signing up is something only a small percentage of Americans do. In your case there is no dishonor in the circumstances that prevented you from completing your goal.

If you have any other questions please don't hesitate to reach out to me......military history and memorabilia is a passion of mine.

 

[A2coins]

Dang thats cool