Info on Turkey (the country)

[reg11756]

Going to Turkey in August to watch my son play volleyball for the USA team. Staying the first week in Izmir on Aegean coast. Any knowledge about md rules there? Best way to get my machine/s there and back safely?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Going to Turkey in August to watch my son play volleyball for the USA team. Staying the first week in Izmir on Aegean coast. Any knowledge about md rules there? Best way to get my machine/s there and back safely?

This subject has come up before. And no doubt, just because the magnificant antiquities the name "Turkey" conjurs up, you're going to have people tell you "no you can't". In fact, they might even be able to quote and cite scary sounding laws from there. But ... go figure, so too could someone from Turkey probably cite "scary sounding laws" about the USA in regards to md'ing as well (ARPA, mel fisher legal hassles, etc....).

If you do a T'net search on various key words like Turkey, etc... you will find a thread that appeared on the subject. On that thread, I posted a pix that a friend of mine gave me, from his travels in Turkey. As he passed through a major city there (I forget which one now), he actually SAW a shop... while passing a store-front window in a retail/shopping district, where they SOLD metal detectors. Yup, the sign saying "Whites authorized dealer here", or something to that regard. Presumably they're selling them for lawful legal purposes. No?

I suppose it's no different than here in the USA or ANYWHERE in the world: If you go snooping around obvious historic sacred monuments, well then sure, someone's going to get mad, cite laws, etc... But .... if you're in a farmer's field with his permission, then ....... so what? That's what they do in England afterall, is hunt farmers fields with permission, NOT public parks, sacred monuments, etc... right? Because when you have THAT many years of history (thousands of years), then go figure: finds will accumulate, even just in furroughed fields (but preferably where distinct cross-roads, villages, etc... were). And if they are private farmers fields with permission, then that would be outside the scope of laws you read of. The laws for public land, by definition, refer to public land. Doh.

But as I say, no doubt, others will come on here painting pictures of certain doom, jail, death, etc.... Watch and see.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Found it. Here was the thread. Click on this link here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/262733-apparently-they-must-md-ing-turkey.html

If someone still says you "can't detect anywhere in Turkey", then please tell us who this shop is selling machines to / for?

I asked the friend of mine, who is posing in this pix, if the detectors are, perhaps, only being sold for industrial purposes. You know, like finding nails in logs, landmines for the military, etc... He said that he had poked his head inside the shop, and that it was indeed a shop geared for the hobbyist (how he surmised that, I don't recall).

 

[reg11756]

True that most links I have found say "NO!" however, like your friend, I found a link to a dealer in Istanbul and I have emailed him for info. If it turns out to be OK, I may just try to rent one rather than deal with the airport nightmare of trying to check or even carry one on.

Thanks, Tom in CA

 

[LM]

Found it. Here was the thread. Click on this link here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/262733-apparently-they-must-md-ing-turkey.html

If someone still says you "can't detect anywhere in Turkey", then please tell us who this shop is selling machines to / for?

I asked the friend of mine, who is posing in this pix, if the detectors are, perhaps, only being sold for industrial purposes. You know, like finding nails in logs, landmines for the military, etc... He said that he had poked his head inside the shop, and that it was indeed a shop geared for the hobbyist (how he surmised that, I don't recall).

I don't know the legal status metal detecting in Turkey, but I can point without hesitation that this is precisely the sort of bad 'internet advice' that can get people into trouble. Laws of other nations can be incredibly complex, convolouted, nuanced and damn near impossible for a foriegner to interpret without aid of local cognoscenti.

Does a MD shop in Ankara prove that MD'ing is a unregulated pursuit?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

There are gun shops in countries where gun ownership is a heavily regulated activity, liable to all manner of rules and regulations that we here in the US wouldn't understand.

So, perhaps MD'ing in Turkey is legal under some circumstancesm, but your advice starts from an absolutely terrible, intellectually lazy premise.

To the thread starter, write the Turkish consulate and follow it up with a phone call. They will tell you something nearest the truth and even if they give you 'bad permission', a letter from them would go a long way in mitigating any issues you may have.

 

[stefen]

An American tourist in any near-eastern country should be just that...a tourist first.

Americans are not well liked in most Muslim communities, an being innocently armed with a MD unit could be the impitus for a local uproar.

Where are you going to use your MD? In a local park...which may have a historic or religious veil...

Along a roadway...just tell them your looking for hidden explosives...

Best to be a tourist and enjoy the country.

 

[Peyton Manning]

shoot, it was site of garden of eden and where the arc stopped. you should find lots.
Just do it, I doubt Turkish jails are bad.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Laws of other nations can be incredibly complex, convolouted, nuanced and damn near impossible for a foriegner to interpret without aid of local cognoscenti.

So too does that seem to be the case of the USA too, where layers of odd bureaucracies and interpretations bring about odd threads on this very matter! One guy detects state parks in his state, and never has a problem. While the NEXT guy in that VERY same state shutters at the notion, insisting you'll be immediately jailed, confiscated, etc... Or other such odd-ball answers from bureaucrats depending on who you ask, what mood their in, the mental image they have in regard to your question, etc.... But tell me LM: does this fact of odd and overlapping and sometimes confusing rules mean that: "Ergo, detecting the USA is bad internet advice, dangerous, etc..."? No, of course not. Last I checked there were lots of people detecting here w/o a problem in the USA (assuming they're not snooping around obvious historic monuments). So the fact of "confusing data" does not necessarily mean you can't do something.

Does a MD shop in Ankara prove that MD'ing is a unregulated pursuit?
ABSOLUTELY NOT.

You're right: those metal detector might indeed be sold for industrial business purposes, eh?

To the thread starter, write the Turkish consulate and follow it up with a phone call. They will tell you something nearest the truth and even if they give you 'bad permission', a letter from them would go a long way in mitigating any issues you may have.

I have no doubt that if the OP writes enough letters to consulates, border bureaucrats, and lawyers, he will indeed find someone to say "absolutely not". So too would be the answer if you wrote letters to enough archie lawyer types here in the USA too. Because perhaps they're couching their answer in terms of shipwreck salvor laws (ala mel fisher legal hassles), or APRA, shiloh, lost & found laws, blah blah blah

There's the humorous story of how Fisher Co. did exactly what you suggested, when the question was posed to them about detecting in Mexico. How did they answer the question? By doing exactly as you say: They forwarded the question to a Mexican consulate, or some such govt. bureaucrat (hey, who better to ask than Mexico themselves, right?). And someone there told them "no". Even to the point of citing all sorts of scary things. But the odd thing is, that detectors are a common site down there in Mexico (on tourist beaches for example). And there are detector dealers in major cities there (INCLUDING FISHER DEALERS, doh!). So .... the old "no one cared till you asked" routine can happen on national scales too.

I'm not saying to break laws. By all means, if there really is a law that says "no metal detecting in Turkey" (that extends all the way down to private farmers land even), then by all means, keep it. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. If I'm wrong, then please link us to the law. And seriously now, do you really think those detectors are for finding nails in logs over there?

 

[fishguy]

I think its funny they sell them so its got to be legal... They sell fireworks here in PA and they are illegal, if there is money to be made they will sell it. We have embassies military foundations(MWR) and I am sure the US team your son is involved with has some type of Public Relations going with them, that could answer or clarify the laws. I have been to Izmir, Turkey, Americans are pretty well excepted there, well there money is at least. You won't be the first one to ask the question if you can or cannot detect. I wouldn't do anything that would draw attention to you or a group legal or not and thats for any country traveled to these days sadly. Just be sure to find out the laws the penalties in those areas are much harsher than in the US, and if you broke the law the US can not always protect you. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break it. Please find out what you can and congratulations to your son and best of luck. I hope you get permission and have good finds, history as far as mankind in that area. If not it is a beautiful country with alot to do and see.

 

[Mackaydon]

Contact the Turkish Consulate's office in LA
[TABLE="class: ts intrlu, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]6300 Wilshire Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90048
(323) 655-8832
If their response is positive, ask for it in writing, or Email.
Don....[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Ammonhotep]

Beautiful country, Turkey! Spent a month there last year and absolutely adored the land and people.

Of course detecting historic sites is against the law ... that's the case in every country that I'm aware of. Personally, just wouldn't risk trying to get a MD into the country via air. Asking in advance will get a predictable answer, too. Sounds like a catch 22 unless you can dig up some local connections. That would be the route I'd take.

 

[LM]

So too does that seem to be the case of the USA too, where layers of odd bureaucracies and interpretations bring about odd threads on this very matter! One guy detects state parks in his state, and never has a problem. While the NEXT guy in that VERY same state shutters at the notion, insisting you'll be immediately jailed, confiscated, etc... Or other such odd-ball answers from bureaucrats depending on who you ask, what mood their in, the mental image they have in regard to your question, etc.... But tell me LM: does this fact of odd and overlapping and sometimes confusing rules mean that: "Ergo, detecting the USA is bad internet advice, dangerous, etc..."? No, of course not. Last I checked there were lots of people detecting here w/o a problem in the USA (assuming they're not snooping around obvious historic monuments). So the fact of "confusing data" does not necessarily mean you can't do something.




You're right: those metal detector might indeed be sold for industrial business purposes, eh?



I have no doubt that if the OP writes enough letters to consulates, border bureaucrats, and lawyers, he will indeed find someone to say "absolutely not". So too would be the answer if you wrote letters to enough archie lawyer types here in the USA too. Because perhaps they're couching their answer in terms of shipwreck salvor laws (ala mel fisher legal hassles), or APRA, shiloh, lost & found laws, blah blah blah

There's the humorous story of how Fisher Co. did exactly what you suggested, when the question was posed to them about detecting in Mexico. How did they answer the question? By doing exactly as you say: They forwarded the question to a Mexican consulate, or some such govt. bureaucrat (hey, who better to ask than Mexico themselves, right?). And someone there told them "no". Even to the point of citing all sorts of scary things. But the odd thing is, that detectors are a common site down there in Mexico (on tourist beaches for example). And there are detector dealers in major cities there (INCLUDING FISHER DEALERS, doh!). So .... the old "no one cared till you asked" routine can happen on national scales too.

I'm not saying to break laws. By all means, if there really is a law that says "no metal detecting in Turkey" (that extends all the way down to private farmers land even), then by all means, keep it. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. If I'm wrong, then please link us to the law. And seriously now, do you really think those detectors are for finding nails in logs over there?

While I share your general disdain for bureaucrats and bureaucratic clueless, you just typed far, far too many words in clarification of the fact that, at its core, your initial advice to him is garbage.

JUST GO OVER THERE DON'T ASK SOMEBODY MIGHT SAY NO AND IF THEY SAY NO THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND SAID THERE'S A METAL DETECTOR SHOP IN ISTANBUL YOU'RE GOOD!!!!!!!!!

Just mind-bogglingly stupid on so many levels.
Free free to type another 6000 word encyclical, you're not escaping the fact that your advice to this man is terrible and may land him in serious trouble... IN TURKEY.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

While I share your general disdain for bureaucrats and bureaucratic clueless, you just typed far, far too many words in clarification of the fact that, at its core, your initial advice to him is garbage.

JUST GO OVER THERE DON'T ASK SOMEBODY MIGHT SAY NO AND IF THEY SAY NO THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND SAID THERE'S A METAL DETECTOR SHOP IN ISTANBUL YOU'RE GOOD!!!!!!!!!

Just mind-bogglingly stupid on so many levels.
Free free to type another 6000 word encyclical, you're not escaping the fact that your advice to this man is terrible and may land him in serious trouble... IN TURKEY.

Well .... sure. And so too is the "serious trouble" admonition given for just about any country or state or county or sand box that comes up for question. Afterall, you "can't be too safe" right? Maybe it's true. Maybe we all ought to just give up detecting anywhere "lest we be arrested, confiscated and jailed". And don't take anyone's say-so as "it's ok". Afterall, the person who detects at this place already "maybe they just don't know". And the low-level bureaucrat who just told you "it's ok" doesn't have a high enough rank. Keep asking. Keep going higher and higher, and sure, you'll eventually find someone to tell you "no".

Remember: the slightest thing that can be morphed to apply to you, DOES apply to you: cultural heritage, disturbing vegetation or earthworms, etc... If you have any doubt, just keep asking higher and higher, and yes,: someone will tell you "no you can't"

 

[LM]

I'm guessing you're not a very well traveled man, or whatever travels you have done were in some tightly controlled circumstances like military service.

It's a mighty big world out there and it can be refreshing to see just how common humanity can be from place to place, but once you get out in that mighty big world- and particularly, out of the Anglosphere- you realize just how differently things are done in other places. If you realized this, then you'd most likely also realize just how comically bad your advice is to a person traveling to what's essentially an Islamic country.

Stick to giving Toto advice about Kansas. What you're proposing to this man here will only cause him great grief, eventually. Of course, we all have different tollerances for risk. Turkey is a country that licenses ordinary coin collecting on the basis of their strict antiquities regime but sure. If you want to go traipsing around on the basis of the advice above with a metal detector and the hope that "I didn't know" is enough to avert a few weeks in a TURKISH JAIL, have at it. Hope whatever you're looking for is worth it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

LM, ok, sure, so Turkey "licences coin collecting". Great. Wonderful. The USA licenses my car. My dog even has a dog license. Ok.

But back to a question that still intrigues me: Who are those metal detectors being sold to, and for what purpose, on the streets of Instanbul? Can only local people detect, but not foreigners? If so, then great: I merely befriend a local person (I'm sure I have a long-lost relative there, or just someone who can take an interest in this fun hobby), and partner up with the person.

So please do tell: Who are those detectors being sold to, and for what purpose ? (and remember when you answer, that detecting is highly illegal there )

 

[gunntekk1]

while you are over there pick up some cheap meerchum pipes and sell them when you get back

 

[LM]

So please do tell: Who are those detectors being sold to, and for what purpose ? (and remember when you answer, that detecting is highly illegal there )

My answer is not that detecting is 'highly illegal' there.
My answer is that it's likely a complicated issue and requires more examination than the dross you're spewing here.

The fact that there's a metal detecting shop does not mean that its a free-as-you-please activity. I have a gun shop within a few miles of me that sells fully automatic weapons, silencers and destructive devices. Pursuant to your logic, someone from Turkey should be able to just fly into JFK Airport with an AK and fire it off whenever it looks like there aren't any people around, since obviously, if there's a shop that sells them, the activity must be unregulated!

It's just shitty logic. Sorry.

PS- Satellite TV receivers are illegal in Iran.
Here's a photo of an apartment building in Tehran.

Maybe he should load up some satelite dishes and bring them over because some guy on the internet showed him a picture of satellite dishes in use?

As noted, you come off as a person highly inexperienced with international travel and the sometimes tricky nuances of inter-cultural exchange in very different countries. You don't want to find yourself on the wrong side of it, unless 3rd world jails are your thing.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

LM, well, sure, in ANY country, ANYWHERE, there can be rules governing the use of particular items. You know, like in the USA you can't just "drive a car anywhere", and yes you "have to be licensed". And in the USA you can't just "fire a gun anywhere" (as you give in your example). And .... guess what, so too in the USA you can't just "detect anywhere". Sure. But hey, check it out, even using those examples: detecting, and cars and guns are common hobbies here in the USA. All this despite: " the ..Laws .... can be incredibly complex, convolouted, nuanced and damn near impossible .... to interpret". Yet the point remains, you can do those things. The fact of rules governing was no the issue. No one doubts that there's gonna be rules governing EVERYTHING, in ANY country. I mean, sure, so too am I forbidden from tromping on Shiloh or Ghettysburg here in the USA. But that doesn't mean that people here in the USA (or foreigners coming here) should shudder and think "better not risk it when I come to the USA. Too many laws. I might get arrested."

 

[LM]

OK Tom.
You've arrived at full-on gibberish.

I have no interest whatsoever in trying to have a reasoned, grown up discussion with someone like you, so you're welcome to the last babbling and rambling words between us.

The original poster is obviously welcome to peruse his own thread and decide for himself who among us is most worth listening to.