Swifts TurtleBack Rock

[-Ki-]

 

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[-Ki-]

Anyone see the turtle?

 

[KY Hiker]

Glad to see you back on the forum Ki!
That is the head off to the right from the shell or back? Probably looks better in the winter with the leaves down.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well. I see a FACE looking in a certain direction... a "jaw", "mouth", "nose", "eyes"... FLAT TOP for "head"; MAY be "drill-holes" on flat area on "top"; "Sight-in" the direction, that the FACE is "looking"...

 

[-Ki-]

The swift bug bites again. Yes you can see a lot more in the winter. Actually looks like a turtle in the winter.. yep rebel there is a Indian head looking east. And there is also a window (lighthouse) through the cliff. I've seen this rock for years and only this year the turtle jumps out at me.

 

[KY Hiker]

The swift bug bites again. Yes you can see a lot more in the winter. Actually looks like a turtle in the winter.. yep rebel there is a Indian head looking east. And there is also a window (lighthouse) through the cliff. I've seen this rock for years and only this year the turtle jumps out at me.

Care to share where this is ? Does not look familiar to me as being in the RRGorge.

 

[P.ALLEN]

One thing to take into consideration here. The Shawnee referred to Daniel Boone as Sheltowee, it roughly translates to Little Turtle. Now he stomped in and round RRG and the Natl Forest given into his namesake. Turtle Rock may be another formation in the area, locals might have called it turtle rock due to an association to Daniel Boone....long shot but maybe something to wrap around.

Just playing Devils Advocate.

I've seen Turtle Rock and know that it is a named formation, just trying to expand horizons.

 

[KY Hiker]

One thing to take into consideration here. The Shawnee referred to Daniel Boone as Sheltowee, it roughly translates to Little Turtle. Now he stomped in and round RRG and the Natl Forest given into his namesake. Turtle Rock may be another formation in the area, locals might have called it turtle rock due to an association to Daniel Boone....long shot but maybe something to wrap around.

Just playing Devils Advocate.

I've seen Turtle Rock and know that it is a named formation, just trying to expand horizons.

Yea, I think your referring to Turtle Back Arch above the Swift Camp Creek drainage. What Ki has here is obviously larger, either a ridge top or the next shelf down off the end of a ridge. Many of the landmarks in the RRG were named after the Swift Journal landmarks, back in the days before the Daniel Boone Nat'l forest....or even before that, when it was called the Cumberland Nat'l forest. Heck some were named prior to there being any Nat'l forest! The only things named remotely to Daniel Boone or his Shawnee name would be D.Boon Hut and of course the Sheltowee Trace which passes through the RRG.

https://www.topoquest.com/map.php?l...27&zoom=4&map=auto&coord=d&mode=zoomin&size=m

 

[P.ALLEN]

Man you guys make me miss home so much, love it. Displaced Kentuckian here. I'd love to spend some time poking around on the upper upper upper reaches of the Red to check out some of those little hollers and little creeks and streams that feed into it. It's not runnable by boat unless there's high water and when the river does rise it balloon's into Class III borderline IV type rapids. Hard to get into and hard to get out. If I found silver up there, I would be looking around like a paranoid squirrel then tucking tail to get back home with my treasure as fast as I could. I have a whole set of topo's from OutraGIS I think those guys are based out of Lexington. Good stuff, and good luck all.

 

[franklin]

Was there mention of a turtle back rock in the Swift Journals. I purchased one years ago from Michael Paul Henson. I can not recall one being in the journal?

 

[KY Hiker]

I have read 4 different versions of the journals, I think two of them mentioned a rock shaped like a turtle...of course ANY boulder with a roundish shape can be seen as a 'turtle back rock' . This ridge top has the whole turtle shape, head and all. Turtle back arch does not much resemble a turtle to me, its hard to see because the way its situated. You sort of climb down over it and from below all you really see is the arch and not much of the top. To me it was always a stretch for it to be called Turtle back arch, maybe back when things were clear cut and it was more easily seen from a different angle or at a distance...I don't know.

 

[franklin]

I believe the "rich mines" of J. Swift were up around Lexington, Ky. somewhere. And the other mines were around the "Breaks" up that way back towards the Cumberland Gap and across the mountain from where Lonesome Pine Speedway is located. I can not think of the name of that little place where D. Boone and family spent the Winter when his son was killed on their trip towards Cumberland Gap.

 

[KY Hiker]

That would put them almost a hundred miles apart from each other! If a mine is located near Lexington it would almost have to be South of there and along the KY River. The rest of the topography around there is much too flat to slightly rolling and does not fit descriptions. Also, it would almost certainly put the timeline of travel mentioned in the journals at 4-5 weeks to and from Alexandria, VA out of range. Lower mines are mentioned in some accounts as being SW along the great ridge (Pine Mt). I tend to think the Indian (Shawnee) cavern(s) are in Pine Mountain somewhere.
Going by the timeline of travel (4-5weeks) and walking with horses, and/or horses walking, the Frenchburg area is almost about maximum range from Alexandria. Especially considering the return trips with loaded horses/mules.

Boon's family stay at Martin's Cabin (station) ? It was about the only known outpost at that time near Cumberland Gap.

 

[franklin]

That would put them almost a hundred miles apart from each other! If a mine is located near Lexington it would almost have to be South of there and along the KY River. The rest of the topography around there is much too flat to slightly rolling and does not fit descriptions. Also, it would almost certainly put the timeline of travel mentioned in the journals at 4-5 weeks to and from Alexandria, VA out of range. Lower mines are mentioned in some accounts as being SW along the great ridge (Pine Mt). I tend to think the Indian (Shawnee) cavern(s) are in Pine Mountain somewhere.
Going by the timeline of travel (4-5weeks) and walking with horses, and/or horses walking, the Frenchburg area is almost about maximum range from Alexandria. Especially considering the return trips with loaded horses/mules.

Boon's family stay at Martin's Cabin (station) ? It was about the only known outpost at that time near Cumberland Gap.

No it wasn't Martin's Cabin. Martin's Cabin was built by General Joseph Martin's son. They stayed the Winter with Old Man Castleman or Castlewood?

One of JS Party later puchased land near there and keep going back across the mountain and bringing back silver ore.

 

[bearduke]

When's the best time of year for hiking (searching). Was at The Red River Gorge in July and the undergrowth was so thick getting off the trails with all the rain was nuts?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

When's the best time of year for hiking (searching). Was at The Red River Gorge in July and the undergrowth was so thick getting off the trails with all the rain was nuts?

Winter with NO Snow...

 

[KY Hiker]

When's the best time of year for hiking (searching). Was at The Red River Gorge in July and the undergrowth was so thick getting off the trails with all the rain was nuts?

Mid November thru late April is best due to leaves being down. Rebel is right, you don't want snow either, it can be deadly with all the cliffs. Take a pair of hand pruners because the Rhodo's (Mountain Laurel) are thick year around.

 

[franklin]

I went through a thick mountain laurel thicket in West Virginia while "seng hunting" While crawling through with no where to walk, I found a five dollar bill. How it got there I could never figure out. I do not think anyone else traveled through that thicket like I did, maybe a crow dropped it. I was ten miles from no where.

 

[P.ALLEN]

As above Late Oct, Early Nov, want a frost first(as stated above), keeps the Eastern DBs and the Copperheads away (hopefully the ticks as well). Makes me wonder about some of these reports, Caseyville Formation (the sandstone) is typically underlaid by a shale or coal seam and then a limestone basement, hence the caves and sinks around Lexington (you see it on the roadcuts) I'm leaning towards the outer/outlying edges of the Appalachians, Pikeville, Paintsville, and on down to the Gap, east of London (well crap it could be anywhere along there) Gotta get over into coal country though, where the uplift of the Appalachians and the metamorphic rocks take over, Appalachians at one time were larger than the Himalayas and are related to the Scottish highlands (long sense separated) Gotta go over to where the Kaolinite deposits are (the blue bladed minerals) imo. I dunno if there are any pegmatites in the area as well, good place to start.

I've met some Swifts down along the Tennessee line, and they were not hurting for money, so that might be another sign that whatever played for John, went on to his kin.

Check this out, you can look for some ideal spots.
https://mrdata.usgs.gov/geology/state/fips-unit.php?state=KY

Elliot County has a Periodite intrustion (so that's borderline igneous metamorphic rock, should have some good associated minerals)

Caseyville Formation might not be the actual sandstone formation, I know it is down in Warren County Shanty Hollow areas.

Of course the KGS isn't going to say anything, but you know, Ive been places in Kentucky where the Archaeological Survey say that no Cherokee were there and YES the Cherokee were there, and places where they've said no Water Moc's and of course YES there were Water Moc's. These academic institutions if they haven't seen it, then it doesn't exists. You and I know, stuff exists in these areas. Silver had to come from somewhere.

 

[KY Hiker]

Well I know almost nothing about geology...probably because it bored me to tears...but what is the 'accepted' reason given for the formation of Pine Mountain? When looking at a topo map on a regional scale, it certainly looks out of place. It doesn't line up with the rest of the mountains in KY, but does run parallel to the blue ridge while being many miles apart from them. In some of the road cut around the Red River Gorge bluish rock can be seen that is not shale. When wet after a rain it has a glitter and takes a darker blue hue. Also on some of the arches, obvious iron deposits can be seen on the surface, usually holding water because they are crater like formations. Any ideas?