Jim Bark on Adolph Ruth

[TEGlover]

Gentlemen,

As there has been some discussion as to just where Adolph Ruth stayed I thought the below might be of intrest.

I've been doing some filing waiting for a delivery and I came across the six page document that Jim Bark wrote in 1931 about what he had discovered about Adolph Ruth from a trip(s) to Arizona. Jim was living in Southern California at the time. The start of the letter is below. I have posted it as it has new tid-bit or two, and it sheds light on just where Ruth was headed, and where it seems he stayed.


"Oct. 1931

This is the story of Ruth as far as I have dug the facts to date.

Ruth came to the Half Circle-U ranch situated on the south side of the Superstition Mts. in Pinal County, Arizona. On may 10th 1931. A man by the name of Mc Knight had driven the car with he and Ruth in it from Washington D. C. to the Cal Morris filling station at the junction of the Florence and Superior highways, about twenty miles south of the U Ranch. McKnight said that he could not go any further, as he did not know where the Superstition Mountains were. Much less where there was any camping place, or any roads leading from the main highway . Morris said he knew where the U ranch house was, and he thought Ruth could camp there. As all trails leading over into the Superstitions Mts. started from the Ranch. Ruth asked Morris if he would drive him to the house. Morris said he would and McKnight continued on his way to the state of Washington wither he was bound. It appeared that while Ruth owned the car, he could not drive it. ...."

TE Glover

 

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[cactusjumper]

Thomas,

Hope all is well with you and Carol.

That's a very interesting bit of history. From the "....." I assume there is more to it. Will the rest be in your forthcoming book? I, along with many others, am anxiously waiting for that book.

Perhaps Ruth did not drive due to his bad leg. I seldom drive anymore, due to my bad....everything.

Thanks for posting again.

Wishing the Glover's and everyone else reading this, a Very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!!!

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Dr. Glover's "first book should be out this week".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cw0909]

Gentlemen,

As there has been some discussion as to just where Adolph Ruth stayed I thought the below might be of intrest.

I've been doing some filing waiting for a delivery and I came across the six page document that Jim Bark wrote in 1931 about what he had discovered about Adolph Ruth from a trip(s) to Arizona. Jim was living in Southern California at the time. The start of the letter is below. I have posted it as it has new tid-bit or two, and it sheds light on just where Ruth was headed, and where it seems he stayed.


"Oct. 1931

This is the story of Ruth as far as I have dug the facts to date.

Ruth came to the Half Circle-U ranch situated on the south side of the Superstition Mts. in Pinal County, Arizona. On may 10th 1931. A man by the name of Mc Knight had driven the car with he and Ruth in it from Washington D. C. to the Cal Morris filling station at the junction of the Florence and Superior highways, about twenty miles south of the U Ranch. McKnight said that he could not go any further, as he did not know where the Superstition Mountains were. Much less where there was any camping place, or any roads leading from the main highway . Morris said he knew where the U ranch house was, and he thought Ruth could camp there. As all trails leading over into the Superstitions Mts. started from the Ranch. Ruth asked Morris if he would drive him to the house. Morris said he would and McKnight continued on his way to the state of Washington wither he was bound. It appeared that while Ruth owned the car, he could not drive it. ...."

TE Glover

TE Glover, does the six page document that Jim Bark wrote in 1931 about Adolph Ruth,
say anything about the car or who owned the car,that Purnel and Keenan supposedly
drove to the movies
thanks for sharing the info

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Quitcher complaining, ya ole billy goat, yer good for sother 50 years Joe.

 

[nobodie]

Will the book be sold at the Superstition Mountain Museum?

 

[cactusjumper]

nobodie,

I believe so, but haven't asked.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[TEGlover]

CW0909,

Sorry, but there is no information on the car itself.

However, there were some other bits that could be of intrest.

Ruth had a decided limp and his right shoe was “… one and one and a half inches longer than left.” Bark probably mean the right shoe’s sole was one and one and a half inches thicker than the left.

“According to Bark Barkley said Erwin Ruth told him: “… his (Erwin’s) work was mostly along the Mexican boarder, with frequent trips well down into Mexico. Young Ruth told the Barkley’s that in 1913 he was called down to a ranch about one hundred and fifty miles south of the boarder into Mexico to inspect some cattle previous to their being driven to the boarder for admittance into the U. S. While on his way down he overtook a squad of Mexican Federal soldiers, who had a prisoner by the name of Gonzales. Said Gonzales was an officer in the insurgent’s army. Young Ruth was acquainted with Gonzales and had quite a talk with him. Gonzales was well aware that they would stand him against an adobe wall and shoot him. He requested Ruth to try and get his family across the border into the U. S. and for Ruth to tell his wife that she would find a package of papers in a certain place in the house. Among them she would find a map of a gold mine in Superstition Mountains in Ariz. and for her to give it to Ruth. She did so, Ruth succeeded in assisting the family over the border into the U. S. all OK. …”

Later Bark states the Erwin said specifically there were two maps. “one giving the general contour of the mountains. The other and larger map was of the trails and identification of land marks close to the mine, as it was very difficult to find.”

Bark also records that the Gonzaleses were distantly related to a Peralta family, and that family was leaving for Spain. Gonzales asked Ruth, if he found the mine, to give one fifth of the mine to his grandson.

There are a few caveats to the above. First despite coming from Bark the information is at best thirds and forth hand. Gonzales to Erwin to Barkley to Bark. Or Peralta to Gonzales to Erwin to Barkley to Bark. Second, there is no direct evidence that the maps pertained to Arizona, just that by the 1930s the Ruth’s thought they did. Remember the Ruths had had the maps for almost three decades.

Interestingly, however, the statement about there being TWO maps does not fit with the current legend. There was no set of or bunch of maps. Secondly, the maps were given not out of simple generosity, or simply for getting the Gonzales family out of Mexico, but also (and perhaps more realistically) to provide for Gonzales’ grandson.

But no details about the car.

Thomas

 

[TEGlover]

Joe,

I have no idea now when the book will be out. It is printed and last identified languishing in a UPS facility in Phoenix. My understanding was the books would be delivered this past Monday. When they never showed I called the printer/shipper. They confirmed that the books had been picked up and shipped the previous week. Unfortunately no tracking number was supplied to me by the printer/shipper. So I could not track the shipment.

Tuesday (yesterday) I obtained the tracking number from the printer/shipper and discovered the books were in Phoenix. And had been in Phoenix for a few days. With help from UPS customer service, UPS said they would (finally) deliver the books today. I am not holding my breath. A UPS customer service person asked the UPS shipping office/person/whatever if customer service had not intervened would the books have been shipped. They were told by shipping they didn’t know.

The plan had been to make books available on Monday via the Internet and to deliver books to the Museum and Guidon and others yesterday. It would have been the very tail end of the Christmas buying season, but still do able in some manner. But now it is too late for that. So I have to ask our tax person about whether I should wait for the new tax year or not.

I am curious what others feel about books on Kindle?No shipping hassles and it my particular case the books would have been available two or more weeks ago. ??

Thomas

 

[cactusjumper]

For those who don't have Dr. Glover's first book, some can be found here:

0966209184 - The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz, Part 1: the Golden Dream by Glover, Thomas E - AbeBooks

IMHO, No Dutch Hunter should be without his books. He has done a great deal of the legwork for you all.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Azquester]

Mr. Glover I have a question.

Do you know what the name of your new book will be and what it's priced at? I was just trying to find it for sale somewhere. I guess it's not on the selves yet you said it hasn't made it too the book stores via UPS. Looking to buy one. I have the first one like Joe said no Dutch Hunter should be without it!

 

[Azquester]

My Wife reads her books on the Kindle I purchased for her three years ago. It's lasted this long because I bought the latest model on the self for about 1k. I've never used it for reading. She still does. I'm on Computers all day reading for my work. Just like books I'd probably fall asleep within a few minutes of reading it at night. If I don't start a book and finish it during the day I always pass out. I have a feeling I won't with the your new one.

Joe,

I have no idea now when the book will be out. It is printed and last identified languishing in a UPS facility in Phoenix. My understanding was the books would be delivered this past Monday. When they never showed I called the printer/shipper. They confirmed that the books had been picked up and shipped the previous week. Unfortunately no tracking number was supplied to me by the printer/shipper. So I could not track the shipment.

Tuesday (yesterday) I obtained the tracking number from the printer/shipper and discovered the books were in Phoenix. And had been in Phoenix for a few days. With help from UPS customer service, UPS said they would (finally) deliver the books today. I am not holding my breath. A UPS customer service person asked the UPS shipping office/person/whatever if customer service had not intervened would the books have been shipped. They were told by shipping they didn’t know.

The plan had been to make books available on Monday via the Internet and to deliver books to the Museum and Guidon and others yesterday. It would have been the very tail end of the Christmas buying season, but still do able in some manner. But now it is too late for that. So I have to ask our tax person about whether I should wait for the new tax year or not.

I am curious what others feel about books on Kindle?No shipping hassles and it my particular case the books would have been available two or more weeks ago. ??

Thomas

 

[gollum]

Hey Thomas,

Hope you're having a wonderful Christmas Season.

Erwin was given three maps by Gonzalez. Two of them Ruth believed applied to the Supers and one was to a Gonzalez Family Mine in the Anza-Borrego Desert in California. Erwin Ruth sent a copy of that map to Glenn Magill, who in turn, sent it to Gene Reynolds in the 1970s while he was looking for it. That map is absolutely for the area around Borrego Mountain. That is why The Ruths went there in 1919 (and how Adolph got that limp). When Gene couldn't find it, he claimed that an old prospect (25 feet deep) was the Lost Gonzalez Mine for his book Borrego 13. Its not. That one is still lost.

Mike

 

[TEGlover]

Gollum,

I know that's the story, and I knew Gene and his story. But, I would not bank on it being the whole story, or necessarily the correct account. As for Erwin Ruth's manuscripts consider the dates when they were written.

Thomas

PS: The books were delivered this morning.

 

[gollum]

I don't doubt that it was not all the story.

I knew Gene, but not too well. All by correspondence and phone. When I got all of Chuck Kenworthy's Anza Research Material, I got hot onto the Anza Story (it was one of the last things he was working on, that and Tumacacori). That is sort of how I got back-doored (so to speak) into the Dutchman. That got me going in that direction, and the whole Stone Maps Thing sort of cemented it. HAHAHA

There is no mistaking The Anza Map Gene got from Magill. It traces the route EXACTLY from Warner Hot Springs, down Grapevine Canyon, through the "Narrows", and out into Azna-Borrego to Borrego Mountain. Now, did that map come from Ruth to Magill? No way to tell. We all know Magill was not above a little creative license in his story telling. Thing is, Magill never went after the Anza Story. I assume which is why he didn't have a problem sharing it with Gene, or did Magill make up that map just for Gene. I didn't know Magill, so I can't say for certain.

To me, while I do want to know the actual true story, that is not as important as having some confidence in the part of the story that may have clues as to where a particular treasure lay.

Merry Christmas - Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

I am curious what others feel about books on Kindle?No shipping hassles and it my particular case the books would have been available two or more weeks ago. ??

Thomas

Thomas I think the Kindle books option looks pretty interesting, would be a faster way to get work into print as people could download it instantly on purchase. I do not know what the royalty arrangement is with Kindle however so would certainly advise checking that out before committing. I don't own a Kindle personally as I like paper books but have a number of books that were downloaded, and they are easier to refer to when discussing things online so everything has advantages and disadvantages. There is also one other possible flaw with Kindle, they do "edit" books to make them shorter, similar to the condensed versions of books we used to see in Readers Digest, and that aspect is something I don't care for. Small details can be very important, so I would hope that they would not remove too much of your work to shorten the text.

I am looking forward to your new book, and wishing you a very Merry Christmas. Sorry we could not make it to the annual rendezvous, would have liked to have seen you again.

Ditto to the statements of Joe, Mike, Bill - Dr Glover's books are pretty much "must have" for anyone that has any interest in the lost Dutchman's mine. He has done a LOT of research, I highly recommend his books.

Merry Christmas to everyone,
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

I don't doubt that it was not all the story.

I knew Gene, but not too well. All by correspondence and phone. When I got all of Chuck Kenworthy's Anza Research Material, I got hot onto the Anza Story (it was one of the last things he was working on, that and Tumacacori). That is sort of how I got back-doored (so to speak) into the Dutchman. That got me going in that direction, and the whole Stone Maps Thing sort of cemented it. HAHAHA

There is no mistaking The Anza Map Gene got from Magill. It traces the route EXACTLY from Warner Hot Springs, down Grapevine Canyon, through the "Narrows", and out into Azna-Borrego to Borrego Mountain. Now, did that map come from Ruth to Magill? No way to tell. We all know Magill was not above a little creative license in his story telling. Thing is, Magill never went after the Anza Story. I assume which is why he didn't have a problem sharing it with Gene, or did Magill make up that map just for Gene. I didn't know Magill, so I can't say for certain.

To me, while I do want to know the actual true story, that is not as important as having some confidence in the part of the story that may have clues as to where a particular treasure lay.

Merry Christmas - Mike

Mike,

I also exchanged a number of emails and phone calls with Gene. I talked him into putting Borrego 13 onto CDs and selling his book that way. He sent me the first one he burned and signed it.

He is also the one who got me started on finding Elenor Clark. The guys took over that search and Garry and Paul found her in just a few days and only hours apart. When you consider that Bob and Tom had been trying to find her for around 20-years, it was quite the feather in their caps. Ain't the Internet wonderful?

Nice to see Dr. Glover posting here. He can certainly add a lot to some of the conversations.

Merry Christmas!

Joe

 

[cw0909]

thank you, guess the car for the movie date will be a mystery for awhile longer
wonder why that was said, what would be the purpose, as Erwin had to know
his fathers arrangements for transportation, and or could fig it out easy enough

CW0909,

Sorry, but there is no information on the car itself.

However, there were some other bits that could be of intrest.

Ruth had a decided limp and his right shoe was “… one and one and a half inches longer than left.” Bark probably mean the right shoe’s sole was one and one and a half inches thicker than the left.

“According to Bark Barkley said Erwin Ruth told him: “… his (Erwin’s) work was mostly along the Mexican boarder, with frequent trips well down into Mexico. Young Ruth told the Barkley’s that in 1913 he was called down to a ranch about one hundred and fifty miles south of the boarder into Mexico to inspect some cattle previous to their being driven to the boarder for admittance into the U. S. While on his way down he overtook a squad of Mexican Federal soldiers, who had a prisoner by the name of Gonzales. Said Gonzales was an officer in the insurgent’s army. Young Ruth was acquainted with Gonzales and had quite a talk with him. Gonzales was well aware that they would stand him against an adobe wall and shoot him. He requested Ruth to try and get his family across the border into the U. S. and for Ruth to tell his wife that she would find a package of papers in a certain place in the house. Among them she would find a map of a gold mine in Superstition Mountains in Ariz. and for her to give it to Ruth. She did so, Ruth succeeded in assisting the family over the border into the U. S. all OK. …”

Later Bark states the Erwin said specifically there were two maps. “one giving the general contour of the mountains. The other and larger map was of the trails and identification of land marks close to the mine, as it was very difficult to find.”

Bark also records that the Gonzaleses were distantly related to a Peralta family, and that family was leaving for Spain. Gonzales asked Ruth, if he found the mine, to give one fifth of the mine to his grandson.

There are a few caveats to the above. First despite coming from Bark the information is at best thirds and forth hand. Gonzales to Erwin to Barkley to Bark. Or Peralta to Gonzales to Erwin to Barkley to Bark. Second, there is no direct evidence that the maps pertained to Arizona, just that by the 1930s the Ruth’s thought they did. Remember the Ruths had had the maps for almost three decades.

Interestingly, however, the statement about there being TWO maps does not fit with the current legend. There was no set of or bunch of maps. Secondly, the maps were given not out of simple generosity, or simply for getting the Gonzales family out of Mexico, but also (and perhaps more realistically) to provide for Gonzales’ grandson.

But no details about the car.

Thomas

 

[Azquester]

I talked wit Gene a lot years ago. I even have his CD somewhere. I haven't seen it since I put a lot of my material in Storage. Is he still around? I know he was sick at the time.

Good old Tiger Kenworthy!

He was interested in what I had at one time. Only thing was he was more expensive than using local GEO companies which only cost me $2400 compared to 8k plus expenses that Tiger charged.

I guess we all sort of got back-doored into the Dutchman. I was working the Treasure Of Tumacacori which turned out to be a hoax and had always been interested in the Dutchman. With the Dutchman being so far from southern AZ I went after the Iron Door Mine legend and that turned out to be a real Story. The images I just posted give testimony for that argument on my other thread for sun and shadow signs. Of course unlike the Dutchman which has so many stories surrounding it you can't manage to see through all the smoke the Iron Door was wide open as no one had really looked for it in decades.

Some of the symbols in the Stone Maps helped a bit.

Ultimately, it was plain old dumb luck that found the site of their mining. Chuck Kenworthys books helped in that realm as it was his signs and symbols book that lead me with some pure dumb luck to the spot I've been working for a few years now. Some of the signs in his books are real, some are not, it's hard to distinguish unless you pound many miles of rubber on the rocks!

Great story Mike!!

And Merry Christmas to All!!

Bill

I don't doubt that it was not all the story.

I knew Gene, but not too well. All by correspondence and phone. When I got all of Chuck Kenworthy's Anza Research Material, I got hot onto the Anza Story (it was one of the last things he was working on, that and Tumacacori). That is sort of how I got back-doored (so to speak) into the Dutchman. That got me going in that direction, and the whole Stone Maps Thing sort of cemented it. HAHAHA

There is no mistaking The Anza Map Gene got from Magill. It traces the route EXACTLY from Warner Hot Springs, down Grapevine Canyon, through the "Narrows", and out into Azna-Borrego to Borrego Mountain. Now, did that map come from Ruth to Magill? No way to tell. We all know Magill was not above a little creative license in his story telling. Thing is, Magill never went after the Anza Story. I assume which is why he didn't have a problem sharing it with Gene, or did Magill make up that map just for Gene. I didn't know Magill, so I can't say for certain.

To me, while I do want to know the actual true story, that is not as important as having some confidence in the part of the story that may have clues as to where a particular treasure lay.

Merry Christmas - Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

I don't doubt that it was not all the story.

I knew Gene, but not too well. All by correspondence and phone. When I got all of Chuck Kenworthy's Anza Research Material, I got hot onto the Anza Story (it was one of the last things he was working on, that and Tumacacori). That is sort of how I got back-doored (so to speak) into the Dutchman. That got me going in that direction, and the whole Stone Maps Thing sort of cemented it. HAHAHA

There is no mistaking The Anza Map Gene got from Magill. It traces the route EXACTLY from Warner Hot Springs, down Grapevine Canyon, through the "Narrows", and out into Azna-Borrego to Borrego Mountain. Now, did that map come from Ruth to Magill? No way to tell. We all know Magill was not above a little creative license in his story telling. Thing is, Magill never went after the Anza Story. I assume which is why he didn't have a problem sharing it with Gene, or did Magill make up that map just for Gene. I didn't know Magill, so I can't say for certain.

To me, while I do want to know the actual true story, that is not as important as having some confidence in the part of the story that may have clues as to where a particular treasure lay.

Merry Christmas - Mike

Mike,

According to Baker Looney, it was Curt Gentry who made up all the BS for the book, not Glen Magill. As a little side note, I have the copy of the book that Gentry inscribed to his mother.

I may have already mentioned this, but we received a very nice Christmas card from Baker last week. He's as sharp as ever, but I know his health is failing fast. Bakers a true gentlemen and it wouldn't hurt for those who have one, to put him on your prayer list.

Merry Christmas!

Joe