Can you take over a closed placer mine?

[jvan]

So I was looking at the LR2000 and looking near my area and found a 20 acre claim almost walking distance to my home that is BLM status " CLOSED " last year

09/01/2013
CLAIM ABANDONED/FORFEITED
NO 2014 MTF/WAIVER

under remarks it says " RTN MAIL FOR XXXXXXX NO FORWARDING ADDRESS

So it shows the fee is $155 a year, does anyone know how I can file or take over the rights of this gold claim?

any help would be great

 

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[LRC253]

Apparently the LR2000 sometimes is not up to date and you'll need to check with the county records. If it is indeed abandoned it's all yours!

 

[jvan]

what would I look for on county records? as i dont see really a parcel id or anything on LR2000

 

[jvan]

also I just noticed they sent this out only 3 months ago

07/16/2014
DECISION/NOTICE ISSUED
FORFEIT

 

[PaulieNoNuggets]

parcel info here:

https://www.edcgov.us/Government/Surveyor/Parcel_Inquiry_Application-GOTNET.aspx

 

[fowledup]

The LR2000 saying its been forfeited 3 months ago is a good sign, however thats not to say someone hasn't started the process at the County. Take the map coordinates -township, range, and section (you will need to know what part of the section- nw,sw,ne,se, 1/4 sec etc. If needed we are Mount Diablo Meridian) into the county recorders office, they will point you in the right direction and tell you if its available. If its available go to ClayDiggins and company's Mylandmatters I believe there is a tutorial for filing a claim or do a search here on filing a claim. In Placerville huh? I wouldnt waste anytime if its available, cuz it wont stay that way long. Good luck!

 

[Hoser John]

Tax assessors office has the maps to locate in a book,page and parcel number -then you take these to recorders office computer or microfische and see what's REALLY up as BLM LR2000 is near worthless. My claims of 22 years--and all legal filings disappeared hahahaha so they could try to take them the filthy dogs-John

 

[Clay Diggins]

Why do you think this was a gold claim jvan? Mining claims in that area are made for several minerals.

There seems to be a misconception here that a closed claim can be reopened. Once a claim has been closed the only way to have a mining claim in that spot is to go through the entire claiming process again. I would advise against trying to use the old claim location papers to make a new claim. For all you know the previous claim was closed because the location was improperly made. In my experience about 80% of claims made don't meet the minimum standards required by law.

Before you can make a claim you will need to determine the land status, research the County Records for recent claims made, define the area that appears to be open and then put boots on the ground to do three things:

1. Look for recent monuments making claim to the land.
2. Prospect the area in question to find valuable locatable mineral deposits and find those minerals.
3. Mark out the boundaries of the claim and monument and stake the claim with a properly formed location notice.

After that is done you will need to within 90 days:

1. Visit the County Recorder for the county your new claim is in and make a public record of your claim and map.
2. Make an informational filing with the BLM, pay the location and filing fees and get a case number assigned to the claim.

Skip any of these steps or miss a deadline or payment and your claim will be invalid. There are also annual obligations to record with the County Recorder and to file with the BLM. Each step of the way there will be mandatory fees.

Please don't try to locate your claims by county property parcel. Claims located by that method are invalid and you will just be wasting your money and time.

Mining claims can only legally be located by aliquot part or by metes and bounds. Attempts to locate claims by coordinates or by tax parcels always result in invalid claims.

Locating claims isn't difficult. The instructions are clear. You can find those instructions in two places:

The 1866, 1870 and 1872 Mining Acts.

State laws governing mining claim locations.

Here is the law for locating placer claims in California:

CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE SECTION 3902

The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following
manner:
(a) By erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous
and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a
notice of location containing all of the following:
(1) The name of the claim.
(2) The name, current mailing address or current residence
address, of the locator.
(3) The date of the location, which shall be the date of posting
the notice.
(4) The number of feet or acreage claimed.
(5) A description of the claim by reference to some natural object
or permanent monument as will identify the claim located.
(b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced
and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest
accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument.
Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to
appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it
pertains and the name of the claim.
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

Heavy Pans

 

[goldog]

Is there any gold on it? Are you able to mine it? Is there water?

Now that it costs more to file and hold claims many people have let go of worthless/ low producing claims. You are in Placerville so I would guess there is a good chance it is worth filing, but...

Once you know it is available, your first order of business is to find some gold there and assess the type of equipment needed to get it... In the mean time get your ducks in a row so you'll know what to do in order to file a claim.

 

[jvan]

Yes there is gold there, found some yesterday while there. The old claim backs up to my property, it is on the north fork.... and there is other gold claims less than 1/2 mile away on the same river that have been active claims for 50+ years... Along with the history of my area I found out there was miners camps setup here and is gold rich area.

Just trying to protect my self before I really start mining with buddies...

If I can secure this claim, for a few hundred dollars and some headache paperwork then I think it would be well worth it... Considering I was down there and took only a sample that took me 5mins to get has to be worth about $5 in gold... Not saying it is super rich claim but you never know....

 

[goldog]

Well get on down there and file. You've said enough already... The walls have ears... MOVE, MOVE...

 

[jvan]

so I just got back from the county assessors and county recorder clerks office, they were not much help, they did not even know what I was really talking about as they said only BLM handles that, and only way the county steps in is to tax you if the claim is over 100 acres, however since the claim is only 20 acres they said they do not deal with it...

The assessors office was able to give me the record they had on file for the claim " PLACER MINING CLAIM LOCATION NOTICE " from the last claim owner who forfeited it due to not paying fees 3 months ago.

They also were able to pin point the exact chunk of the BLM land that is the claim... so now that I have the claim pin pointed, what do I need to do? I already have some signs, but I dont think I can put those up without getting BLM to give me a ID number, unless the SERIAL NUMBER on the MASS is the permanent claim number?

Any help would be great.. Thanks

 

[LRC253]

Check this site --

Mining Claim Filing Instructions, Bureau of Land Management California

 

[fowledup]

Read the instructioms and get on it. Anyone in Placerville that can help the man out before he loses it? Say no more about the place as was said "the walls have ears". A good majority of th folks on here could tell you exactly where your talkimg based on the information youve given. Good luck and hooe you get it.

 

[Clay Diggins]

How to research a claim in less than 600 words.

I was going to reply to your PM privately jvan but as I get these questions a lot and there is nothing in my post that involves your location I'm putting it here so others can learn.

I map mineral lands and claims for mining companies. You will need to get a better grip on what a claim is and how the process is handled before you waste your money or your time.

It sounds like you've found a good location that might be open to claim.

The process we use professionally is to:

1. Determine what the Legal Land Description (LLD) is. The LLD consists of the Meridian, Township, Range, Section, Quarter Section and aliquot part of the location. You can determine that description from the Public Land Survey System (PLSS). The PLSS is the Legal Land Description by which mining claims are made by. That's the law and has been since 1789 - no matter what parcel# the tax assessors office call it. You can determine the PLSS of your location by using the Land Status Map and turning on the PLSS layer and zooming in to your area of interest.

2. Take that LLD and look up the land status on the Master Title Plat map for the Township your claim is in. This will tell you if the land is claimable or closed to claims. All restrictions will be noted on the Master Title Plat and it's supplements. You can download a free copy of that Master Title Plat at the Government Land Office website.

If the land you are interested comes up as locatable on the Master Title Plat go to number 3 below. If not you will not be able to make the claim. Just because somebody claimed land before doesn't mean it was claimable. The BLM is well known for accepting claim files and money on claims they will eventually challenge and close.

3. Look up the LLD on the BLM LR2000 database website. This will tell you the current file status for all the claims in the LLD. If a new claim is filed with the BLM it could take anywhere from a week to more than a year before it will show up there. Even so it's a free stop and the information you get on the area claims will help you at the next step.

Just because the BLM shows or doesn't show an open (or closed) claim where you are looking you still don't know the whole story until you do the next two steps.

4. Check for Mining Claim Location Notices for that LLD at the County Recorders Office. If you got a list of the closed claims, with their location date, you can eliminate those claims from your final list - much cheaper.

Most Counties have an online search feature so you can look that up yourself at home. Find the Mining Location Notices, Location Amendments and annual filings for the closed claim and all the claims nearby. You will need the grantors names and the Book and Page each is recorded on.

Mining Claim Location Notice and Legal Land Description are how County Recorder's deal with Mining Claims. They don't keep a map of claims. They do not do searches for location notices without knowing the Grantor name, or the Grantee, or the LLD or the Book and Page. Most Counties charge for record searches that don't have at least two of the above classifications. The County Recorder can help you a lot, treat them well and it can be easy.

Once you have a list of the Book and Page Numbers for the above recordings contact the County Recorder (mail, phone, email, walk in doesn't matter) and order copies of all the pages of each Recording on your list. There will be a charge for this but by having the Names and Book and Page Numbers you only have to pay for the copies - not thousands of dollars in research fees. You do not need the copies certified.

5. Take the information from the claims records you got that are currently active and draw out each claim on a topo map. There should be a map with each claim location. Once you have all the active claims on the map look and see if the area you are interested in is still open (no other claims there). Don't try to "fix" the claim locations if they overlap - that happens and it's one of the things you are looking for on your map. It's entirely possible the claim that was dropped there was an overclaim and there really isn't anything open.

6. If everything looks clear once you've done the above steps it's time to put the boots on the ground. Take your map with you and look around the claim area and see if there are any recent monuments or stakes. LOOK for a new claim there. If it's all good go ahead and put up a monument stake with your location notice and map and mark the claim boundaries.

How you stake and how you describe the claim (aliquot part or metes and bounds) will be determined by what you learned about the area of land you are claiming. In most cases a simple LLD is all you will need as a description. Sometimes you will need to use metes and bounds (distance and direction). You won't know that until you have made your map and checked the location on the ground.

At that point you might have a valid claim. Everyone who locates a claim in California has 90 days to make a public Mining Claim Location Notice at the County Recorder and to give an informational notice, pay fees and obtain a claim number from the BLM. In other words somebody else might already have made a claim there before you but they just haven't made their recording/filing yet. It's all about who puts up the first monument, not when you record or file the location.

Doing these things out of order can waste a lot of time and when it comes to staking, recording or filing your claims it could invalidate them. I've put several links in here to help you along.

Questions are welcome but please be patient - I'm really busy right now and answers may be slow.

Heavy Pans

 

[jvan]

Got it guys just got back from BLM, It is officially Filed with BLM, all they needed was the Placer Mining Location Notice, form filled out and a map of the property.... Cost me $212 for now... Now tomro have to file it with the county recorder...

I think I did everything correct that is needed at this point, as BLM gave me a new claim serial number... Was shocked how quick it was at the BLM office was in and out in 20mins...

Thanks guys for everything... Now just have to make sure everything is filed correctly and put up my NOTICE signs on the property...

 

[winners58]

I think thats backwards I think its the county recorders then BLM
you can still send it to BLM any thing you file with the county you should send to BLM

I think the order is
location notice on the spot you want to claim
then file it with the county clerk
then BLM
then your claim signs

 

[jvan]

Yeah I know, I thought the same thing but they told me they will get a copy from the recorder as they send files to them weekly... But recorder would not help me unless I went to BLM first and paid the fee...

 

[goldog]

Congrats jvan How cool to have a claim right close to home.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Yeah I know, I thought the same thing but they told me they will get a copy from the recorder as they send files to them weekly... But recorder would not help me unless I went to BLM first and paid the fee...

BLM and County don't communicate. Someone at the Sacramento State BLM office told you that? Care to share a name?

The Recorder will record any properly formed notice if you have the money. Did you leave a 2" white space at the top? 10 point or bigger type? 1/2 inch side and bottom margin? Signed with return address? Proper Title to the Location? If so they will record for you.

I have thousands of California claims Location Notices recorded at the County before filing with the BLM. It's the customary way miners make claims in California.

Heavy Pans