ask an expert

[rivets]

Greetings to all


I am putting together a hi banker with 2" nozzle dredge ( sniping ) configuration as where i am the rivers are a shallow steady trickle ( average depth of about 10") most of the year but in heavy rain flood heavily leaving much fine flood gold + pickers ... anyway I am in the process of building a hi banker to adequately supply a le trap sluice ... the hopper box will be 600mm long x 300 mm wide x 250mm high ( aprox- 23.5" x 11" x 9.5" ) of which the fixed grizzly bars will have 270mm ( aprox 10.5" ) opening ... above which will be a removable 1/2" grizzly which will cover the back portion of the hopper dropping the larger rocks a third of the way down fixed grizzly as to not allow these larger rocks to interrupt the flow from spray bars/jets nozzles in feeding the flow to the le trap sluice ...

which brings me to the point of this thread which is to ask you experienced guys will this pump work well ... understanding I am limited to pump choice here in Bulgaria and do not want a large heavy pump


Pump specs

Honda WH15 which has the GX120 engine ( 3.5 hp or 2.6 KW and has a 1.5" inlet and outlet which delivers 105 GPM or 6300 GPH and is said (advertised) as having a 50 meter head which be 5 bar or 72 psi pressure capacity and weighs in at 22kg


So understanding that the le trap needs a good flow and the fixed grizzly bars allows 8mm ( 5/16" ) to pass through to the sluice which first drops into a trough of 300mm wide x 400mm long ( aprox - 11" x 15.5") before entering the le trap and also when snipping with the 2" nozzle i will need a blaster and the 2" pipe off this suction nozzle will have to feed this le trap although i am also considering adding a water supply with valve to the back of the trough to aid flow/water feed if needed !


I have bought the le trap and 2" dredging nozzle i have also built the sluice frame as well as two thirds of the way in fabricating the trough and hopper box and therefor committed ...and so i now need a pump in hand { so to speak } so I can begin calculating spray bar or jet nozzles configuration ( have not decided this as of yet ) according to pipe size ( + length) , GPM. PSI etc etc


I also understand having spent hours reading the comments here that you guys need pictures and will add some when i am able to put these three parts ( frame/sluice, trough + hopper ) together as they are dismantled at the moment and in various stages of completion


ps I would like to take this opportunity to thank you seasoned prospectors ( you know who you are ) for giving freely of your knowledge as it is of great help to me in this business of prospecting of which i have just begun ....

 

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[ratled]

Yes the W15 has more than enough power to do what you want. I built a very similar rig in the 90's and used that motor. The high banker plans were posted on the old Prospector's Cache forum (long gone). I have posted them on other forums too but cannot remember which ones.

Here is a picture of that motor in dredge configuration I cobbled together after the highbanker setup worked so well. The jet is a Proline and the box is a Keene 2"


One thing I HAD TO do was turn the pump discharge around 180 degrees so the motor's exhaust went one way and the water the opposite. It had great suck for 4' deep holes and was used in elevations up to 4000' above sea level. The only reason I couldn't go deeper was I couldn't reach further with out air.

I'll see if I can find some highbanker pictures too

ratled

 

[ratled]

I couldn't find any in action pictures of the highbanker but here is one from the build thread


I just used zip ties to lash the jet to the grizzly bars and covered the top with my panning tub

Added: When used as a highbanker I was able to work benches as high as 50' above the stream and have just a enough water to run it with a Keene A 52 as the sluice.

ratled

 

[rivets]

Thanx ratled i appreciate your response


I added some more rivets today and will add more rivets 2moro so should be able to take a few pics ...

 

[rivets]

I went ahead and ordered the pump so should get it in 20 days or so ... said i would show some pics but them fixed grizzly had me sweating bullets all day ! as you know a fraction out and they will wedge the rocks ...

I will definitely have some pics 2moro as i would most appreciate all criticisms ...


Anyway thanks for the likes i took them to mean the pump is A ok and coupled with ratled's reply reassured me to go ahead and get the WH15 and so can now do the math for the spray bars and find the parts ...

PS: I added another 38 rivets 2day

 

[rivets]

Managed to get it assembled roughly for pics ... hopefully they load !!!



Anyway I have some questions for you Pro's ...


1) I will calculate the surface area of the 1 1/2" supply which will be the radios x radios x pie/3.14 and then divide this number by the number of holes according to the spray bar size ( and drill bit/hole size ) which will be 1" and aprox 350mm/14" long x 2 plus their being two sides which will be fed from the 1 1/2" tee understanding I do not whish to hamper the flow but keep optimal pressure supplied at pump only needing the valve to wind down GPM because I will be first feeding a manifold with 3/4" tee for blaster in dredge mode but this manifold will also have two 1 1/2" outlets one to hi banker and one to dredge nozzle albeit only one will be in use at any one time I just want the option to switch from spade to nozzle via manifold without having to swap pipes about .... I shall also have a 1/2" tee before the 1 1/2" valve on the hopper to supply trough if needed understanding when in hi banker mode I have the 3/4" supply to blaster already ....

Which brings me to the question ? which works better or which will work better for my set up ... a bunch of small holes delivering a shower of water or 4 to 6 strategically placed larger jets ?

The reason for the question is I want to obviously clean the rocks but also use the water to help rocks out of the hopper


2) This second question a/effects my first question because I want to put carpet + expanded metal in the top of hopper to start recovery and so any thoughts or any suggestions shall be pondered with much interest ...


What size expanded do I use and what type of carpet works the best ?

3) The trough is 4" deep 12" wide and 16" long ... what do I put in it ? can a fine 3mm expanded metal be used instead of a punch plate and this ribbed rubber matting that go's underneath ... what are the measurements/details on this ? as I want to find something that will work ... or should I buy the one made for purpose ?

I am very interested to ponder anything about this part of the sluice and even if it may be of common knowledge to you guys .. I could be overlooking an obvious ... why ratled in his thread introduced me to the "Plunger Pole" love it ! and there I was thinking that hole in the back of some hi bankers was a rear option for the dredge pipe


I have loads of questions but need to rivet these out for now ... I use rivets like welders use tacks


Yours humbly rivets

 

[ratled]

Nice looking set up. Since you are using a Le Trap and have screened it well with your grizzly, I would just install some spray bars and give it a go. With the Le Trap I wouldn't worry about carpet up front, you'll want the slick plate action from below the hopper and the flat section of of Le Trap to give the gold a chance to settle down.

ratled

 

[rivets]

Thanx mate


Yes ... this what you say has a ring of truth to it ... and as I will be making/copying a sluice with carpet/moss expanded and angled metal in it of some tried and tested design perhaps I may be going overkill ... so hmmm "give the gold a chance to settle" love it ... will ponder this deeply

 

[rivets]

Another question ?

Given that this configuration has the WH15 with pressure capacity of 72 PSI/5Bar pump ( 161' or 50 meters ) and is fitted with a 1 1/2" outlet delivering 105 GPM to the 2" suction nozzle which has a 1 1/2" male connector on the 1" pipe which supply's the venturi effect and this jet of water then pushes the vacuumed material up the 2" pipe and into the hopper which I have kept the profile of as low as possible governed by the 1" fall per foot and so depending on depth of the river or where I am able to set up my rig this 2" deliver pipe is of great importance seeing it counteracts flow rate with back pressure dependent on the materials surface area and weight within it ...

So according to a number of factors such as this 2" delivery pipe has to go into the hopper preferably above the grizzly which by my calculations from the foot of the rig to the weir of this discharge pipe will be between 20" and 22 " and this calculated having the weir of the end of sluice 8" off the ground ( not water surface )


Also given that I will be sniping with this nozzle in holes below bedrock surface and according to ratled who has experience with this pump was able to suck at 4' deep holes and was capable of going deeper brings me to the question?


I need a rough estimate of this 2" pipe length I need to purchase understanding I want to max this out to cover more area so as to limit the amount of times I will be forced to move my rig ... I am happy to go a meter or two over and then chop off a bit to find the sweet spot ... so to speak


And so understanding my rig will always be positioned as low as possible ( taking into account water surface ) and the mouth from nozzle inlet to weir of discharge pipe will be on average about lets say 30" and ratled says he had good suck at 48" and the gradient of this pipe to weir when sucking downstream from the sluice will be slight until the sweep up to hopper which I will sleeve with a pipe to keep gradient balanced out etc etc


What is the maximum footage of 2" pipe do I need to purchase ?

 

[arizau]

First, I'm no expert and I don't even own a high banker.
Second, I endorse the K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) method and I think that the design of this high banker is the epitome of simple. Mini Gold Highbanker | Mini Gold Highbanker
I don't think you can go wrong if you employ some of Doc's elements in your design. You can look at some of his other high banker designs and videos here. Gold Hog - Gold Prospecting Equipment - Sluice Mat Any of them should work well no matter if you use conventional riffles, etc. or whatever.

Good luck.

 

[rivets]

Agreed


I have studied hundreds of hi bankers including all of Doc's and have incorporated the best features into my design and in my humble opinion have improved upon a few details, understanding that for me the sluice details within a hi banker should be interchangeable and the hopper must be able to accommodate the pitch/GPM to suit


As for this example of a hi banker you have offered I am sure it is fit for its purpose, but will not work for me seeing the gold and where it is at dictates recovery ...


To offer an example of what I have said which by no means is a criticism out of arrogance of Doc's design ... understanding he sells them and must make a profit of which he has stated himself and simplicity in design does not mean cheaper to manufacture ! besides the fact that having a 2" pipe in the mouth of the hopper does not sit well with me and neither does it lend itself to simplicity seeing one has to shovel the pay dirt in at an awkward angle

But having said this I have learned much from the Doc and have respect for him as a prospector and I watch his videos as he explains stuff very well, but when it comes to the hi banker I need making my own is the simplest option


Thanks for the comments and links ... I do like the looks of them hog mats

 

[rivets]

In relation to the title of this thread ask an expert


Definition of an "EXPERT"


A person who is very knowledgeable about or skillful in a particular area, subject or activity either by being taught or by experience


Seeing that the subject, activity here at Treasurenet is Prospecting in the sense of recovering minerals out of the ground by method... then anyone here who is skilled in his/hers particular method to me is an expert and therefor I am all ears to what you have to say ... and so having said this feel free to inject your expertise as it matters not to me if it appears out of context because to me from where I am seeing from all things are related ...

Yours humbly rivets

 

[motohed]

rivets , I'm trying to wrap my head around this , and mean no disrepect , but most of us , use are equipment in many different places and materials . It appears you are working on this unit your building for a special instance . I'm not quite sure how to help or how it will be benificial too the rest of us . That being said I will follow your thread and see if there is anything that I can add .

 

[rivets]

Its very simple


I am putting together a hi banker dredge combo for fine gold recovery which will be set up in small rivers, but unlike the ones that are sold which are not really combination seeing that the two elements are not merged together but separate ... in other words to go from one configuration to the other will incur pump shutdown and dismantling and reassembling of pipes ... time wasted ... especially if this takes place throughout ones day ... and why I will install a manifold so as to switch from one to the other with minimum disturbance to the sluice fundamentals ...


Also this spray bar set up I have seen on most hi bankers can be put to better use by directing the pressure and volume of incoming water to not only wash rocks but aid in their removal from ones hopper ... understanding that clog ups at ones grizzly waste time as well as hamper the flow causing problems to the fundamentals of the sluice etc etc


My questions are specific which I have also explained the reason behind them, understanding also I seek out my own answers and am not relying on other's to answer them, but only seeking an experts ( person of experience ) opinion


Quote "I'm not quite sure how to help or how it will be benificial too the rest of us"


When in doubt ... don't and no the gold I recover will be of no benefit to you and who is the rest of us

 

[rivets]

I have decided to purchase 6 meters or 20' of 2" suction discharge pipe owing to the fact Keene engineering supply 15' feet with their 2" combo which has the 2.5 HP motor and 100 GPM 160' head pump capacity ... seeing my pump delivers the same pump capacity but has the extra 1 HP ... it being 3.5 HP and so when ready will test maximums and then cut back as required ...


I have also decided to go with 6 strategically placed jets in the hi banker instead of spray bars owing to the fact spray bars do not aid rock removal and having tested the pitch of my hopper's rock removal capacity using gravity alone found even a minimum of forward momentum on a stationary rock propels it down and out ... also bearing in mind the removable grizzly I will make sits above the fixed one and I will give it a slighter steeper pitch + the 2" to 2 1/2" ( not decided ) drop from the removable grizzly on to the fixed grizzly will suspend most rocks in freefall allowing gravity to assist in momentum further aiding in there removal

 

[rivets]

Question ?

What is the preferred hi banker spray bar hole size ( drill bit ) to wash rocks but also break up clay ? having read what I was able to find this varies from as small as 1mm to 1.5mm to 2mm to 2.5mm to 3mm and so should one mix them up

 

[Rockwerx]

If you use different size holes the water will take the path of least resistance. I would use one size of hole for this reason. Also, you may wish to try slits instead of holes. Slits work very well for cleaning rocks and they do not plug with debris as easily.

 

[rivets]

Excellent points ... thanks


I discovered this today ... testing different hole sizes ... must say it caught me of guard ... was impressed how even a small 2mm hole at 85 PSI grows in diameter and looses its pressure so quickly ... and so back to the hardware shop to pick up some 1mm drill bits


Thing is I am trying something I have not seen before ... as far as hi banker spray bars go ... as I am attempting to deliver 9 pressure + 2 feeder jets to the hopper + holding back flow/volume for a trough feeder when/if needed ....


At this moment I am kind of in the middle of this so still experimenting .... I also started out wanting slits but ended up testing holes first ... but will test slits also ... which brings up a question .... what size slits are you referring to ?

 

[Rockwerx]

I am trying to design a new wash box for one of my sluices to make it a functional high banker. When I build my sprayer my intention was to use one of my old rock saw blades to cut my spray slits. I have some extremely thin diamond saw blades as well as some thicker ones. I was going to start with a thin one to see if I get desired results. The thin trim saw blades (.006 inches) may be too small but it is better to start small and then go wider IMO. I have seen a few pics on this forum and it looks like most people cut slits 1/2 inch to and inch wide...I plan on trying small slits first unless someone suggests a solution to this issue.

Good luck with your system!

 

[rivets]

Thanks .... let me know how it goes with yours too .... all the best