Layer Transitions and Odd Stones

[tseek7]

Keeping an open mind to the idea that all of this could be naturally occuring geology, why would the layers so abruptly and dramatically shift in composition? You would think that even as a result of natural disasters the layers would blend and gradually fade in to such varying compositions. Here we see that with each layer change there is no mixing at all between the layers, only sudden changes all the way down to what is now over 52 ft depth. Am I wrong for thinking that this has all been manufactured?

Wishful thinking can corrupt perspective when unearthing stone formations above a supposed treasure location. But the position, angle, spacing, coloration... All a result of natural geological processes?

View attachment 1793048

 

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[Kray Gelder]

You have dug a hole 52 feet deep?

 

[Guardrailnickel]

These are notes from current dig. How many of you have seen the material shift so abruptly like this? Is that normal? It seems like the material would undergo a slow transition, mixing and fading in to a different composition over time. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Also if the markers are not man-made why would several feet of material, which is otherwise similar to the material in which the markers were found, be so completely void of any curiously shaped stones? And by coincidence alone be ordered and positioned in such a way? What are your thoughts?

I would think flooding could cause the material shift. As for the stone shaped object's, it may just be coincidence. Looking at rock shapes, is like looking at clouds. Everyone can see something different. Can you post the pics of the rocks, with your description? Let us see what you are seeing.

 

[cyzak]

Very interesting did you have above ground markers that located this dig location there will never be any sub surfaces monuments directly above this that tells were this location is.

 

[kingskid1611]

Maybe to prove this theory you should go about half a mile and dig another hole the same way and see what transitions you find there. Just to justify its not naturally occurring. I am fascinated by your adventure

 

[MiddenMonster]

But there is a river nearby which turns sharply and loops back around forming what looks like a finger. The finger is "pointing" directly at this target location.

The river is your biggest clue. Smooth stones are always a sign that water shaped them, and since there is a river nearby, deposited them. When water has its way with stones, they can take on pretty much any shape. For example, the top two images in your series of several images look just like hand axes. The problem is, hand axes were probably ancient history when the Americas were populated, and they don't have any of the telltale signs of flaking due to hammer percussion. They are too smooth, so their shape is consistent with water shaping them.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

All of the above ground markers got moved or destroyed when the area this is in got developed. But there is a river nearby which turns sharply and loops back around forming what looks like a finger. The finger is "pointing" directly at this target location. The signs started at 4 ft but if you look at them you can see they are not abundantly obvious, although the shoe is pretty nice.

What got you started at this location, & who do you think may have done this?
Hearts have been used by different entities for different reasons. Some being
in a treasure area, some enticing one to dig into a death trap, or misleading.
Pointing, directional, or marking is always a possibility, and used with other
markers in the area to give the clue(s).

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Keeping an open mind to the idea that all of this could be naturally occuring geology, why would the layers so abruptly and dramatically shift in composition? You would think that even as a result of natural disasters the layers would blend and gradually fade in to such varying compositions. Here we see that with each layer change there is no mixing at all between the layers, only sudden changes all the way down to what is now over 52 ft depth. Am I wrong for thinking that this has all been manufactured?

Wishful thinking can corrupt perspective when unearthing stone formations above a supposed treasure location. But the position, angle, spacing, coloration... All a result of natural geological processes?

View attachment 1793048

Could all be natural. What is above ground? Any Legend, etc.?

 

[Crosse De Sign]

The right shoe marker you see above was found at 4' depth. It is exactly 11.5" long. The other cache is positioned exactly 11.5' away from this hole to the East. So if you convert inches to feet it indicates the distance to the other cache. Is it safe to assume that the right shoe means "turn right/East" and the heart which was found at 12' was indicating when to start tunneling in the indicated direction?

OK, does other cache mean you found something there,
& if so, was it at a similar depth(s) also? Could be, so
who do you think would use those kinds methods?

 

[Crosse De Sign]

I happened upon this location by divine guidance while pursuing a lead to a location far from here. This land was chosen as a headquarters while executing my own flawed plan to recover the other cache. When the operation fell through I took a break here to pray, gather my thoughts, learn from my mistakes and decide which lead to pursue next. During this period of meditation I was led to experiment with the ancient art of dowsing. After taking two copper AC tubes and forming them in to L-rods, I simply asked the question "Where is the nearest buried treasure?". Instantly the rods decisively swung in unison, by some seemingly magnetic force, and stopped to point at a specific location. No matter which way I turned my body, the rods remained firmly fixed on a specific direction. So I walked in the direction indicated by the rods until they crossed and that is where I began to dig this hole.

I think the people who buried this were using the Jesuit Code. So I'm hoping someone who knows about that code will be able to decipher these signs.

That's all interesting & pretty deep...

Here's the best known reference for Spanish Treasure Vaults, I believe.
Seems like I've read the KGC may have used similar codes to extreme depths.
See if you can contact a user by the name of Franklin in the KGC forum threads.
He seems to have a lot of knowledge of such caches & possibly similar depths too.


A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

 

[MiddenMonster]

The problem I have with accepting the idea that the river is solely responsible for forming these stones is the meaningful position of the stones and the fact that many feet of material which included very different compositions, some of which were abundant with stones, was completely void of any stones that seemed abnormal. Some layers including several feet of material were void of any stones at all. When I say the river is nearby, I mean its within 500 yards. "Nearby" is borderline inapplicable to the distance.

Not so fast, Hoss. 500 yards relative to a river that could be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands years old is nothing. Rivers change their course significantly over a mere 100 years, and can flood every year. And in the course of thousands, hundreds of thousands or even millions of years you have to consider the possibility that at one time there was a body of water there, formed by a river that was backed up by a natural dam. Are there mountains within 100 miles of this spot? Then those stones could have come from the mountains in that broad, geological time frame. When the same processes happen many times over this geological time frame you can get transitions and layers that stack out just like you describe. If this is the same shaft that you are digging under your house then you really need to consider why someone would not only bury a treasure that deep, but also put rocks like this so deep. The chances of anyone digging down that far and hitting the same stones you hit are very small, especially if they are digging the same sized shaft. And along those lines, would the people who bury a treasure in this manner also have dug a shaft such as yours this deep, or would they have dug more of a pit? A narrow vertical shaft has a much greater chance of caving in on the people than a pit that is several times wider than it is deep. In fact, excavators have a formula they use for depth vs. width to determine when they have to put in support for safety in the event of a cave in. A small hole that is only neck deep can be a grave when the weight of that much soil fills it in, leaving only your head above ground and hundreds of pounds of soil and rock pressing in on your chest and preventing you from breathing. And with every exhale it squeezes a bit more, just like a python.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

When I started surveying this land I located several targets before I began digging anywhere. Two of the targets were close together. But one was much smaller than the other. So I reasoned that the smaller cache would be the most shallow and easiest to recover. After digging down and unearthing the shoe, I was pretty certain that it had been formed by man. So I measured it and found that the distance in inches matched the distance in feet to the other nearby target. After reaching an extreme depth while digging for the smaller target I decided to step back and consider whether or not I had missed something and decided to start digging over the target which was 11.5' away to the East. At 4' depth above that target (the same depth as the shoe over the other target) I unearthed this marker, which has the form of a three-sided pyramid with a box-like bottom and was pointing down to the center of the target area:

All interesting, good luck & be safe.
I do believe in Divine Guidance...
Check out sandy1's thread.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Here are better photos of the three-sided pyramid, notice those markings on the box face, they go around and repeat on one side of the pyramid.

Even with the things laying closely you've found, including measurements,
it will seem more coincidental, until you find a definite man made object(s).
Parking lots & sub-divisions have been built over treasures for decades, but
odd & peculiar rocks have been hanging around much longer. Could be that
someone used natural shaped rocks like what you're finding. But you are
at such an extreme depth, that as Midden is saying, & I don't know how
you avoid a cave-in. Think Oak Island, what all clues they really found.
Also, surely you're thinking about the potential for a water trap...

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Here are a few of the markers unearthed in the dig described in the notes above.

4-5 ft Markers:


View attachment 1793036

This one has a sharp edge,
but the back of it is seemingly
equally rounded on both edges,
more like it was man-made.

If it was in an ancient river or creek,
I doubt it would still be shaped like that...
So to me it's the odd one, & possibly placed.

[Edit] Otherwise, could be it was just covered
up a long time ago, perhaps by flood or cave-in.

The rest of them, especially the heart is very
nice, & the diamond is pretty symmetrical.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Here are a few of the markers unearthed in the dig described in the notes above.

12 ft Markers: (Notice maroon color of face only, found right beside each other)
View attachment 1793049
View attachment 1793044

The diamond shape appears that it may have been
ground or burnished in the middle area with the line...
So there's 2 potential man-made manipulations I doubt
would be just totally naturally occurring. Just my thoughts.

I'll just add, that I've been on a few Native American village or
encampment sites, & even found miniature weapons for example,
that I figured were possibly toys. The heart & diamond shapes does
seem to have been special to them, as well as triangular.. like a face.
Yes, many have appeared to be naturally made, & others manipulated.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

View attachment 1793441
View attachment 1793442
View attachment 1793443If you could hold this thing and see it with your own eyes and roll it around in your own hand, you would be thoroughly convinced it was man-made. I tried to capture more of what I am talking about in these photos:

I've seen a lot of stuff like that, semi-polished.
If you look close, it may be there's some lines,
where they used another rock to grind it with.
The step/line is noticeably deeper, & more
defined in those pics too. So perhaps
someone used artifacts, whether
some just natural, picked up in
a Native camp that they had
gathered to use as markers.
But why to that depth?

 

[MiddenMonster]

What you're saying could be true. It could all be natural. But take a good look at the notes and the position of these stones. To me, when you combine everything, together it all forms a 75% likelihood of a cache being buried here. Look at that heart. Just look at the diamond. The diamond is perfectly symmetrical when you measure the face. The two upper sides are exactly 2" each, the bottom two sides are exactly 1.5" each and the line going through the center is exactly 2" long. That heart is beautiful man, look at it. These stones if nothing else are extremely uncanny to be found right next to each other at 12' depth.

I think it all depends on what is actually buried here. If it was nothing but a few gold bars I would say it would be unlikely for anyone to go through such trouble to conceal it. But what if its a horde of diamonds? What if its a collection of maps to several other treasure locations? We can't know...

Maybe. But let's be serious. You are pulling that 75% figure out of thin air. If you want to get to the bottom of this (no pun intended), it wouldn't be that difficult. First, do some research on the geological history of your area for the last 35 million years or so. It's easy to do, and you should be able to do it on the Internet. That will provide you a picture of how rocks and soil built up over time. If there is a water history, that would explain the stones. Second, actually take the stones to a geologist. Ask him/her if they are man made or if their shape and circumstances of position are consistent with being deposited naturally. Their origin and composition can have a lot to do with their shape and texture. Is there a university nearby? That's the perfect place to start. Third, if the university has an archaeology or anthropology department ask them if the stones look like they have been worked by humans. Don't mention the treasure part; just show them the rock. You may not have a treasure, but you may have an archaeological find. Stones worked by humans almost always show signs of being worked. Tool marks are seldom removed completely unless the stones have some ceremonial or religious purpose.

I think it would be great if you found treasure. But look at what is going on: You've dug a very deep, small diameter shaft that has less chance of hitting anything the deeper you go. Logically and statistically the shaft should be getting wider the deeper you go if something is buried there. You're looking at rocks and seeing all kinds of possible signs and purpose in them. Is it possible that you are sitting on top of a big treasure? Yes, of course it is. But you have to remain emotionally detached from that possibility in order to keep everything in perspective. When I was in college a friend was sure he had found the cranium to a skull. The more people questioned it, the angrier he got. He insisted it was part of a skull and was really upset about our attitude. The shape was perfect, the lines on the inside looked like veins, etc. Finally he took it to the science department to ask them. They told him it was part of a coconut shell.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

What you're saying could be true. It could all be natural. But take a good look at the notes and the position of these stones. To me, when you combine everything, together it all forms a 75% likelihood of a cache being buried here. Look at that heart. Just look at the diamond. The diamond is perfectly symmetrical when you measure the face. The two upper sides are exactly 2" each, the bottom two sides are exactly 1.5" each and the line going through the center is exactly 2" long. That heart is beautiful man, look at it. These stones if nothing else are extremely uncanny to be found right next to each other at 12' depth.

I think it all depends on what is actually buried here. If it was nothing but a few gold bars I would say it would be unlikely for anyone to go through such trouble to conceal it. But what if its a horde of diamonds? What if its a collection of maps to several other treasure locations? We can't know...

There's a few things I'll add. First is that the rocks appearing to have possibly been manipulated by man,
may most likely have been easily shaped by another rock, which doesn't leave tool marks to be removed,
like from a chisel or flaking. Nothing you have shown was ever flaked, & is not the right material to flake.
Even if there is something metallic below the rocks you found, it doesn't mean it's even cached treasure.

I doubt that it's even an archaeological find, unless you were to find some kind of old human or animal
bones. Archaeologists are most likely not to even be very interested in your rocks, & if you did happen
to find something significant left from an ancient encampment, possibly laugh if you mention treasure.

Be aware of archaeologically minded people, who will tell you that you cannot & will not ever be able
to recover a treasure, because since they likely never have, it's just simply impossible. Then, there
are so many state & federal treasure laws, unless you can acquire a permit, it may be illegal to dig
for treasures, even on land you hold deed & title to. Yes the layers could have happened naturally.

You may also have located deep springs of water, and the placement of the rocks, depths & sizes,
relativity of the distances apart, may all be coincidences, and if you were actually onto an actual
treasure cached by Jesuits, there would most likely already have been multiple death traps that
would have been sprung. Besides, the Jesuits have been known to use specific markers & other
ways of relocating caches, as well as shallower depths, vaults with cap rocks, some apparently
rock lined, back-filled & rock capped. They could also make a kind of concrete, & color match
it to blend in with the naturally occurring colors present. Even if all the surface markers had
been removed by development, it doesn't seem likely they would have cached that deep, &
not even in potentially ancient cave that may have sometime in the distant past collapsed.

If you could get better equipment perhaps a better determination could be made. But it's
not worth risking life & limb, based on the clues you've presented, too much speculation.
You have apparently defied safety, & gotten away with it so far. Do a lot more research
like you are now, & you'll most likely get a better perspective. You've put out quite a
considerable amount of time & energy. But even a fantastic treasure, will do you or
no one else what you hope to accomplish, if you're devastated with human loss...

 

[MiddenMonster]

There's a few things I'll add. First is that the rocks appearing to have possibly been manipulated by man,
may most likely have been easily shaped by another rock, which doesn't leave tool marks to be removed,
like from a chisel or flaking. Nothing you have shown was ever flaked, & is not the right material to flake.

Say what? ? ? How can you say that rocks "shaped by another rock...doesn't leave tool marks to be removed"? How do you think percussion flaking is done? A hand axe is made entirely by percussion flaking, i.e. striking one stone with another stone (hammer) to knock off flakes. I've also found many pieces of flint and chert that appear to have been flaked by human hands, but in reality were just compressed and tumbled by natural forces of thousands of years. You are thinking of pressure flaking, which involves using something like an elk antler to break off small flakes for final shaping. But we agree that most of those rocks are not the right material for knapping. The two at the top of the page are close, but all the rocks with inclusions look more like some kind of granite than knapping material. But I do have to add, the rock @tseek7 says looks like a heart looks more like a booty to me. More like a version of the Goddess of Willendorf. But since that was carved around 30K years ago I think we can eliminate that. On the other hand, if his booty rock is 30K years old and made by humans he has a find that might be worth more than KGC gold bars.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Say what? ? ? How can you say that rocks "shaped by another rock...doesn't leave tool marks to be removed"?

Simply referring to the grinding process, which leaves fairly fine lines, not chisel or flaking marks/dips.
I think you know what I meant, because that's what I said, looked like it was done from grinding, not by tools.

How do you think percussion flaking is done? A hand axe is made entirely by percussion flaking, i.e. striking one stone with another stone (hammer) to knock off flakes.

Yep, have done it. Some very nice granite axes have been shaped & then ground/burnished to a "semi-polished" finish.
The tedious grinding process for a smooth finish.

I've also found many pieces of flint and chert that appear to have been flaked by human hands, but in reality were just compressed and tumbled by natural forces of thousands of years. You are thinking of pressure flaking, which involves using something like an elk antler to break off small flakes for final shaping.

Not hard to tell the difference in natural & manipulated, because of the edges & shapes.

But we agree that most of those rocks are not the right material for knapping. The two at the top of the page are close, but all the rocks with inclusions look more like some kind of granite than knapping material. But I do have to add, the rock @tseek7 says looks like a heart looks more like a booty to me. More like a version of the Goddess of Willendorf. But since that was carved around 30K years ago I think we can eliminate that. On the other hand, if his booty rock is 30K years old and made by humans he has a find that might be worth more than KGC gold bars.

A 30K years old booty rock, nice, are you having a good day?