Why did Charlie Ryan get away with murdering Doc Noss?

[gunslinger44]

I just finished "100 Tons of Gold" amazing story, to say the least.

One part I find particularly disturbing is the sequence where Doc, disastrously, tries to fly off the 110 bars.

For one thing, it makes no sense that Charles Ryan wanted to "turn the gold into authorities", why on earth would he be helping Doc search for it in the first place? It doesn't ring true, to me.

But the worst is obviously, how Charles Ryan and his goons kidnap Doc Noss (holding someone against their will is called kidnapping) when he comes to the house, then Doc flees, Charles Ryan then shoots him in the back, then stands over him and shoots him in the head. The witnesses there testify that this is what happened. Based upon this, this is murder, and even in a 1949 court, its hard to imagine someone getting away with that. Doc was not armed, he merely fled his captors, and him going back to his truck was him trying to LEAVE, not have a gun battle. In either case, Ryan shot him when he was down and unable to retrieve his gun, had that been his intent (I don't believe it was), at the behest of his cackling wife "Shoot the son of a *****!".

If anyone has anything to add, whether knowledge or speculation, I appreciate insight, this has been bothering me since I read it.

 

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[Riverbum]

Hatch N.M. is mostly a one horse town where everyone knows each other. I'm sure Charles would have had no problem with his friends on the jury and knowing the judge as he did. As for Doc, he was bound to get it sooner or later but can't fault him for trying to find some buyer for his gold bars.

 

[gunslinger44]

River, I don't think Charles Ryan was from Hatch, as I recall from the book, he was from Alice, Texas, Doc met him there while looking for work, and came under his employ.

As for Doc, it's not certain he was a scammer at any point, the bad checks he passed were, according to Doc, due to his former employer not paying him his rather large paycheck of $700 at the time (probably about $8000 in today's money) that story seemed to check out, according to Charles Ryan's findings when he first employed him.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bound to get it" other than the fact he had pretty loose lips about probably the largest gold find in history. If that's what you mean, I agree 100%, I'm honestly surprised beyond belief that everyone involved were such a bunch of dumb country bumpkins about the whole thing, but I suppose it was a different time then, people trusted each other more, and trusted the government, if you can imagine such a thing. Even Fiege, ******* that he was, thought he could go to WSMR command and get "permission" to dig out riches beyond anyone's wildest imagination, and not draw the kind of attention that it did from the really high-ups and everyone in-between. Unbelievable the naivete. And Fiege and his group could have easily removed the contents of the cavern they discovered, and all been wildly rich just off that one roomful.

 

[gollum]

River, I don't think Charles Ryan was from Hatch, as I recall from the book, he was from Alice, Texas, Doc met him there while looking for work, and came under his employ.

As for Doc, it's not certain he was a scammer at any point, the bad checks he passed were, according to Doc, due to his former employer not paying him his rather large paycheck of $700 at the time (probably about $8000 in today's money) that story seemed to check out, according to Charles Ryan's findings when he first employed him.

I'm not sure what you mean by "bound to get it" other than the fact he had pretty loose lips about probably the largest gold find in history. If that's what you mean, I agree 100%, I'm honestly surprised beyond belief that everyone involved were such a bunch of dumb country bumpkins about the whole thing, but I suppose it was a different time then, people trusted each other more, and trusted the government, if you can imagine such a thing. Even Fiege, ******* that he was, thought he could go to WSMR command and get "permission" to dig out riches beyond anyone's wildest imagination, and not draw the kind of attention that it did from the really high-ups and everyone in-between. Unbelievable the naivete. And Fiege and his group could have easily removed the contents of the cavern they discovered, and all been wildly rich just off that one roomful.

Gunslinger,

If that is the only book you have read regarding Victorio Peak, then you have a lot of research to do. It is a very interesting story. I would recommend you try and find a set of books called "The Gold House" Trilogy. Best researched books on the subject available. They go into detail regarding the trial of Charlie Ryan. There is nothing left under the peak, but it still a very interesting story.

Mike

 

[gunslinger44]

Gunslinger,

If that is the only book you have read regarding Victorio Peak, then you have a lot of research to do. It is a very interesting story. I would recommend you try and find a set of books called "The Gold House" Trilogy. Best researched books on the subject available. They go into detail regarding the trial of Charlie Ryan. There is nothing left under the peak, but it still a very interesting story.

Mike

Mike, thank you, I will definitely be buying that series, this book was so good I stayed up til 8 AM finishing it.

As for Victorio Peak, I don't imagine there could be anything left under there after the Army had 14 years of uninterrupted (illegal) mining monopoly on it. Unless there's a chamber that go caved in they didn't find, and based on Harvey Snow's description detailing miles of tunnels and rooms abundant, its a possibility.

Another possibility is that some of Doc Noss's old cache spots might still have some bars, as he hid 110 bars away during his doomed attempt to fly the gold away, and Jolley found a cache of 10 bars years after Doc's murder, so somewhere around Victorio Peak there are 100 bars of gold waiting to be found, if they haven't been found yet (they probably haven't been found, as Doc Noss and Jolley were the only 2 involved in caching them, Doc died and Jolley says he only found 10 (he'd have no reason to lie on the TV interview, as he was already admitting to illegally selling them years back.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Jolley said that some of the bars were buried in groups of ten along a fence line, they buried ten then counted out so many fencepost's then buried ten more, and so on, something in the bar's (probably copper) caused the grass to die and they were easily found, Jolley also found evidence that the bar's buried near an old windmill were found, the bar's that Jolley recovered were near an old ranch house, and he said he had a hard time finding them, even though he had helped bury them.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

I liked reading all the information in order, the earliest being Henry James '' curse of the san adreas '' then ''100 tons'' then the book by Phil Kourey, Ova's lawyer
then some men call it treasure, then the trilogy, havent read all of the trilogy but have read ''the dicovery'' about three times.
Henry James book is sort of a kid's adventure type book, but it is the earliest writing, on the subject, and the thing i keep thinking about
when reading it is there was still gold in the peak then.

 

[Dirt1955]

Another Henry James book about lost treasure in New Mexico is "Seven Was The Padre's Number", 1973. "Curse of the San Andreas" was published in 1953.
You can find both available from time to time on abebooks.com or addall.com. James had a lifetime of experience in New Mexico. Both great additions to anyone's treasure library for New Mexico.

 

[gollum]

Mike, thank you, I will definitely be buying that series, this book was so good I stayed up til 8 AM finishing it.

As for Victorio Peak, I don't imagine there could be anything left under there after the Army had 14 years of uninterrupted (illegal) mining monopoly on it. Unless there's a chamber that go caved in they didn't find, and based on Harvey Snow's description detailing miles of tunnels and rooms abundant, its a possibility.

Another possibility is that some of Doc Noss's old cache spots might still have some bars, as he hid 110 bars away during his doomed attempt to fly the gold away, and Jolley found a cache of 10 bars years after Doc's murder, so somewhere around Victorio Peak there are 100 bars of gold waiting to be found, if they haven't been found yet (they probably haven't been found, as Doc Noss and Jolley were the only 2 involved in caching them, Doc died and Jolley says he only found 10 (he'd have no reason to lie on the TV interview, as he was already admitting to illegally selling them years back.

First, I wouldn't rely on anything attributed to Harvey Snow.

Doc also had a treasure cave in the Caballos, not far from Willie Douthitt's treasure cave. He kept that cave a secret. It is possible that Doc was getting bars from Willie's Cave, because Willie showed Doc his cave (and Doc supposedly showed Willie his cave). Willie left the area in 1933 after his second kidnapping and torture, and only went back once every year or two starting in 1943.

Good luck finding any of the 110 bars Jolley helped bury. He wasn't familiar with the area, and all the bars he helped bury were buried at night. He was lucky to have found the ten he did find.

Mike

 

[Honest Samuel]

Best of luck in seeking these gold bars.

 

[autofull]

why, because he shot a liar, cheat and thief.

 

[Juiced8]

Because he did the world a huge favor.

 

[RKW]

The documentary series "Gold, Lies, And Videotape" recently covered the trial for the murder of Doc Noss. They uncovered the fact that the both the judge and DA had entered into a business contract with Charlie Ryan. If I recall correctly they did this just prior or directly after the trial. They even showed the signed contract. The show interviewed the present day DA in Las Cruces and reviewed the transcripts of the trial. The DA's opinion was that such a trial could never take place today because the trial was a total sham.

 

[sdcfia]

The documentary series "Gold, Lies, And Videotape" recently covered the trial for the murder of Doc Noss. They uncovered the fact that the both the judge and DA had entered into a business contract with Charlie Ryan. If I recall correctly they did this just prior or directly after the trial. They even showed the signed contract. The show interviewed the present day DA in Las Cruces and reviewed the transcripts of the trial. The DA's opinion was that such a trial could never take place today because the trial was a total sham.

That Cruces DA might consider waking up and smelling the coffee.

 

[RKW]

That Cruces DA might consider waking up and smelling the coffee.

Who's got more credibility, an anonymous poster shooting peas from the back row with nothing to lose, or a DA who goes on record with opinions and facts and places their reputation on the line?

 

[sdcfia]

Who's got more credibility, an anonymous poster shooting peas from the back row with nothing to lose, or a DA who goes on record with opinions and facts and places their reputation on the line?

Ha ha ha. Believe what you will, but if naivety yields to reality, you may note that some punk DA in Cruces bolstering his reputation would be an ironic joke indeed. Since politics in these threads is considered a no-no, I suggest you move on.