sloppy research = wasted effort and money --- so I hate sloppy research

[ivan salis]

Yep was looking a group of folks website that I actully like and respect---then I saw it not one but two "classical" type screw ups-----both of the not thinking things out properly or careless type aviodible errors---hate those type errors---

the first was a report by a well know person and respected person---who translated a item from old spanish documents---- wreckage found on the north coast of st augustine...a "straight translation'' ...spanish to english ..well normally that would be fine "but''...they forgot that the spanish "speak" differantly than english speakers so its not '''north coast" of st augustine---- its really--- on the coast north of st augustine **about a 40 mile differance***to the actual or "correct" spot------they should have corrected for it or explained the differance.

the 2nd error was a spanish report that stated 15 leauges to the leeward---the guy says (50 miles) hah ---were did he look up his facts? ---the spanish leauge was 2.6 miles or roughly 2 2/3 miles ---take the 15 leauges X 2 2/3 miles guess what 40 miles bingo!!!---a 10 mile differance or 20% off had to be converting at 3 1/3 to 1 league---where that came from who knows ---the english used 3 --the spanish 2.6 or roughly 2 2/3.

they did list "fact" right--- an english report from virgina govenor to the british sec in england that stated " a large quanity of plate is likewise was cast away about 40 miles to the northward of st augustine".---I tracked that one down in the british national archives---I am currently getting a "private" copy of it made so that I can see for myself to recheck the facts ---thats what I do find out for sure.----make sure of your facts and check your sources before speading lots of time or money looking in the wrong places----chasing "ghost"

plus theres a 1769 map showing a wreck site right at just about 40 miles from st augustine to the tee---humm

can't wait for the state arch diver to show in two months ---and say yep you sure did your research. Ivan

 

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[mad4wrecks]

Ivan wrote: the first was a report by a well know person and respected person---who translated a item from old spanish documents---- wreckage found on the north coast of st augustine...a "straight translation'' ...spanish to english ..well normally that would be fine "but''...they forgot that the spanish "speak" differantly that english speakers so its not '''north coast" of st augustine---- its really--- on the coast north of st augustine **about a 40 mile differance***to the actual or "correct" spot

Have you ever seen a worm eaten archival document, where the ink bleeds through both sides of the page, the sentences run together and the handwriting is atrocious? That any one can translate any of these is a small miracle in itself.

Think back to the early days of the Atocha search and the confusion between the Spanish words for "east" and "west". It set the operation back a year and a million dollars. Sh#t happens.

 

[ivan salis]

yes translation is hard stuff and tough to do---it can be rather thankless but this was simple stuff they "had" the words ---the hard stuff this ain't ----they just didn't account for the spanish to english differance in speaking styles ---high school spanish 101 stuff that.
"the red house" in --english ----"the house red" in spanish see even I know that---no PH' D

that said I am amazed by properly done research and will give very well deserved high praise to those who do it----however if you put it in the "public" eye make sure you got it right or else it makes you look bad----If I see sloppy work it gets noticed too.

so have your facts straight ---double check them----folks are looking at what you write

with all due respect to the hard working folks who "translate and write about stuff "

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Ivan, I have a good friend in Costa Rica who takes care of my Spanish/English translations for me, and he is fluent in several languages. Besides the facts that Tom mentioned about the condition of many of the archival documents that need to be translated, also remember that we are dealing with the old Castilian version of the Spanish language. Just being able to speak and read modern Spanish is not enough to do the job justice.
None of us are perfect, and the fact that many of the translations have been done by novices over the years, gives one pause to re-look at the original documents for additional clues that have been missed by others.

Tom

 

[ivan salis]

tom you are indeed correct ---like I said in my post ---I am getting a "private" copy of the letter from the britsih national archives---thus doing my own "first" hand check of the "facts" ---not just throwing stones at folks---we are all human--- but I think it wise to look "very" carefully at others "research" looking for such easy to spot "flaws" before using any "information" from it---just smart thinking and yes even the "big" name and "respected" folks screw up too once in awhile (gasp!!!)---trouble is most folks will blindly accept anything they say --without double checking any of the "facts" for themselves----and the "bigger" they are the worse they are about not being able to admit making a "error"---a sample bit is this---little guys are caught drunk driving all the time no big deal ---but let a "big" shot get a DUI and its front page news---thats part of the reason why "big shots" have such a strong hate for saying --I was wrong, I made a mistake--"makes head-lines" ---sadly lots of folks love to drag down "big folks"----making mistakes makes "big shots" human just a "normal" guy --not "superman". -----being "superman" sells books,ect---being "clark kent" doesn't----Ivan

 

[ScubaDude]

Ivan, I'm not sure which group you are referring to but keep in mind that most of the "groups" your referring to are under funded thus you have few people wearing many hats. A lot of websites look really nice, but keep in mind most are advertising for funding.

I understand your observation and it is an intelligent one. You obviously have a target or project in mind as do others on this board, perhaps as a result of someones else's missteps. Can you imagine all the hoops and hurdles you'll face, and the 500 or so more that you didn't think of? Okay so you've got a small budget who's experience can you rely on for good research, advice, and council, that you can also trust not to rip you off or do something stupid or shady that will put the whole project in jeopardy?

Everyone in this business has likely learned something the hard way, and there are a lot more treasure hunters than finders.

 

[ivan salis]

not having" proper" capital makes using the small amount that you do have even more important---many if not just about all smaller treasure hunting group scuffle along for funding---it always seems tight---money is their "life blood" and doing live "ship research" is big $$$ money as you well know--- by carefully checking your "facts" and double checking any research of others that you plan on using --because simple slips can can cost big bucks!!!-like the old boy scout motto says "be prepared"---fully knowing your subject matter well before going "whole hog" after a site, can only help save precious money for the real deal.
being underfunded is one of the reasons most small bussiness fail. esp in this line of work.

 

[Land-Sea]

I am going to be in Barcelona in Sept. Can anyone reccommend an archive that might hold information on La Madalena off Florida? I understand there were 16 survivors. Also is is possible to retain a translator?

 

[Darren in NC]

This is a copy of an original document I found on the El Salvador - still being sought in NC. It's written in old English from the governor of SC. As you can see, the ink bleeds from the other side making it very difficult to translate. It did reveal an important clue, though

 

[ivan salis]

very interesting indeed--their are "tricks" to assist in reading such "bleed thru" letters----I can actully make out some parts quite easily from this copy and have no problem understanding their terms and phrazing and "pattern of speech" ****ever had the "joy" of reading the really old scottish records--- geez oh pete thats rough---"seeing" the original copy is best though---"the wee bearn of the hous o "mcgregor ---(yikes)--the small child of the house of Mc Gregor---only thing worse than trying to reading is trying to speak it. (murder) Ivan

 

[ivan salis]

basic --"they would be on equal footing with the other merchants if " governer" yep this is fun indeed---looks like a little "power" peddling corruption to me.---- Ivan