Belitung Island Shipwrecks

[fountainofyouth]

I will be glad if there are experts out there who will be interested
to share information with me on shipwrecks off the coast of
Belitung Island in Indonesia. I have purchased a significant
amount of ancient Chinese crockery which has been retrieved by
the fishermen of Belitung Island. Together with very good
connections with the fishermen there they have also told me
about the graveyard of shipwrecks near Belitung Island.
Pls would appreciate if there is experts out there in the field of
ancient Chinese crockery who I can share my experience and
pictures of my collection with. Thanks.

 

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[Mackaydon]

Both Christies and Sothebys offer a complimentary auction estimate--based on photography and disclosure of provenance. Both companies can be accessed online. Sothebys form is called 'Sothebys Auction Estimate Form'.
Christies has an office in Hong Kong; I don't know if Sotheby's has an Asian office.
Don.....

 

[cornelis 816]

Being familiar with the island and the seas around it I must give you a word of caution . There are a lot of replica's around nowadays . Unless you dive on the wreck yourself ( and even then be carefull because the wreck may be seeded ) I would be very careful buying anything . Send us some pictures and we may be able to help you . Cornelius

 

[fountainofyouth]

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it.
I have attached some photos of my collection.
Tell me what you think.

 

[cornelis 816]

Sorry but you have been had . It is no porcelain . A Samuray on Chinese artifacts ? I don;t think so . The way it was produced ( with the swirls on the surface ) is typical Japanese . It is modern , copied , ceramics . Nice but not antique . Although the see around Belitiung has a lot of sunken chinese wrecks , the material on board of this ships was meant for the buyers in Indonesia . It was blueish porcelain . Cornelius

 

[fountainofyouth]

Forgot to mention that some of the dishes are Japanese and Chinese origin.
What about the Chinese Calendar teapot?
Am also attaching photos of some blue white vases.
Would like an opinion about this too.
Thanks.

 

[LM]

Before you go on a buying binge from a particular source who seems to have a large supply of otherwise rare ceramics, you should always have the first few objects TL tested- without informing the seller of this in advance- prior to any purchases being made. The first purchase made in this fashion will always tell you if further purchases should be considered...

I don't know if what you have is a fake or not- the enamel (Cloisonné?) is pretty and probably worth a ton if it's old, but no one can tell from pictures alone. Here's a Chinese vase that sold for $68,000,000 after many decades of various 'experts' proclaiming it as a fake. Thank god those sellers were as persistent as they were. 95% of people would've taken the second 'expert appraisal' to heart and sold it in a junk shop for $100.

Just be sure either way. TL is the only way to be certain. Not pictures. I've purchased a Pre Colombian Ceramic from a *very* respected dealer here in Chicago that upon TL testing turned out to be a forgery (albeit a fairly old one), whereas I played a hunch on an ebay purchase from a seller cleaning out an estate and, after paying for a TL test that cost many times the cost of the object itself, had that turn out to be completely authentic.

Can anyone tell me which is pictured?

Point is, they can't.
My hunch is that you have a boatload of fakes, since it's all "too good to be true" kind of stuff- perhaps fakes commingled with lower quality real stuff, but hey... If you have it TL'd and it all comes back period, you just hit the jackpot.

 

[Mackaydon]

FOY:
Good suggestion offered on first getting one or more items TL tested.
One such company is Oxford Authentications (London).
They have 50 reps around the world; perhaps one is in your area.
Don.....

 

[Batavia]

Belitung again...!:-) The people/fishermen living on this Indonesian island are very clever guys to use their tricks with newcomers...

They will take you to "genuine" and "unknown" wreck locations, nobody has seen before (!)... but a dozen of underwater treasure hunters !!!

They are also very dexterous with their hands to transform objects using genuine "valueless" blue and white porcelains, mostly from the Teec Necum (Tek sing), recovered in 2000 by Michael Hatcher's team and from some other wreck locations such as the Herculean or others... (see some pics below)

Many years ago, you could still find original silver belts from Chinese ship's captains buried on the island. Some people there used to pillage the tombs of these guys to retrieve the valuables; Chinese people use to bury the dead with their wealth...

All the photos showed by fountainofyouth seems to me as fake artifacts, but the value is the one that you give to them, if you wanted to make a present to yourself, than perfect... If it is to sell them again thinking that "very special artifacts" have been discovered, then it's too bad... You'd better off to Jalan Surabaya in central Jakarta, where you can find a fulltitude of various fake porcelains and artifacts from supposed shipwrecks and others...!

Unfortunately, nothing to be found genuinely around this place, as it has been (and still is) also one of the busiest area in Indonesia for foreign underwater treasure hunters since the 90's !!

 

[fountainofyouth]

Thank you so much guys for all the comments and advise.
I think I will opt for the TL test before I reach any conclusions.
It is very easy to be deceived. The only thing I do not understand
is why give me so much of crockery for a song if the sellers want
to make money out of it. Anyway the TL test will determine
everything. How much does this test cost anyway?
Anybody know where in Malaysia this is done?
Thanks.

 

[Mackaydon]

As I mentioned above, contact (online) Oxford Authentications for your local contact--or their referral to another TL tester near you. One onliner estimated $350 for a TL test.
Don....