metal points

[oldgoat]

Hi folks, Ive been collecting points for quite awhile now and have a nice collection of tools and stone points. What I don't have are any metal points from the Indian Wars. Does any one have any from those times or are they a figment of my imagination? I would buy some if thats the only way to get them, would like the story behind them tho.....goat

 

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[Wampum]

I have a few and have posted some here. Mine are early to mid 1600's. I have to get around to posting some pics. It is kind of funny how uncommon these are compared to the stone points. The ones that I have found are brass and made by the indians from worn out trade kettles. I was lucky enough to find one iron trade point though. I am more fond of flint arrowheads myself and seem to have a difficult time finding unbroken ones or ones other than triangle points. I will post some pics here soon once they get done with their olive bath.

Here are a couple but I have some more as well

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,408928.0.html

 

[joshuaream]

Metal points from the Indian Wars (1820's to 1890's) actually aren't very common because much of the fighting was done with guns. The Native Americans were still obviously using the bow and arrow as well, but for the most part the trade for the classic metal point never really took off like the trade for beads and other things. The big fur trading companies of the day tried to get them on metal points thinking it would be a popular item, but tribes preferred knives, beads, kettles, textiles or liquor. Later it was powder and lead.

I've never found one, but I saw lots of them when I lived in Montana. Becareful about buying them, to me they seem to be about the easiest artifact to fake since iron rusts so easily. I see pieces on eBay all the time, but rarely see any that I think are authentic.

 

[Wampum]

Metal points from the Indian Wars (1820's to 1890's) actually aren't very common because much of the fighting was done with guns. The Native Americans were still obviously using the bow and arrow as well, but for the most part the trade for the classic metal point never really took off like the trade for beads and other things. The big fur trading companies of the day tried to get them on metal points thinking it would be a popular item, but tribes preferred knives, beads, kettles, textiles or liquor. Later it was powder and lead.

I've never found one, but I saw lots of them when I lived in Montana. Becareful about buying them, to me they seem to be about the easiest artifact to fake since iron rusts so easily. I see pieces on eBay all the time, but rarely see any that I think are authentic.

Here are some legit non-iron metal arrowheads from a museum. Just to show that others besides the iron type do exist. I prefer the copper and brass over the iron variety since they keep their shape better and corrode much less.

http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/nat_amer/post/htmls/popups/te_trade_arrow.html

There isn't a lot of info on metal arrowheads other than iron type and copper culture. I found all of mine except two and I know where they were found. The iron point that I found is badly corroded and yes they can be easily faked. I also agree that buying artifacts in general is dangerous. I just got mine out of the oil bath and will post them tomorrow including the iron point to show what the condition of them is after 300+ years in the ground. I would be willing to say that mine is in decent shape considering its age. I have seen fords and chevys (especially chevys ) in worse shape. They made those kettles that you mentioned into arrowheads by hammering them down and scoring the kettle with flint. They would then bend the scored metal piece until it broke into an arrowhead. They also would just continue to score the kettle until it seperated from the kettle into an arrowhead. Some arrowheads were a simple triangle. Some were rolled and slipped over the arrow shaft, some were folded in half, some were rolled than smashed flat, and others had a hole punched in the middle and called a perforated point. They would tie the arrowhead to the shaft through that hole. I have all five types.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I have these 3 Copper Points from Wisconsin that were acquired in a trade. It's the only ones I have and I've never found even a piece of one in my 46 years of collecting.

 

[joshuaream]

Wampum,

Yes, there are absolutely authentic metal points out there, and you have shown what many of them really look like. Personally, I think some of those triangles and cones were also dress tinklers/bells, but they are authentic native made somethings.

The classic arrowhead shaped metal ones from the late historic period are rare because the Native Americans had already been introduced to the gun.

I become doubtful when a seller seems to have a never ending supply that look like this one.

Joshua

 

[oldgoat]

I agree that most of the Indians had been introduced to powder and lead by the time of the wars, however, in the reading and research that I have done, the bow and arrow was still used til the last battles, not all the indians were lucky enough to own a rifle. They may not have been as prevalent as in the earlier years but some folks still used them...
Joshua, I too have seen the repops that flood the market place, thats why I've come here, if anyone would have them, the folks here would be the ones I would trust....goat

 

[Wampum]

Yeah that does look very new and crisp for its supposed age. I like the look of it but I like finding stuff myself better. That way I know it is authentic. The only people that I would trade with would be with people on this site. I would never buy or sell anything since I do not believe in selling artifacts, although I do not look down on it either. There is a lot of stuff on here that makes me envious because my site does not produce that and If I had anything that people would like to trade then I would do so.

Am I mistaken or arent tinklers usually short cones with a small hole in the end and no point so that it can be fastened to the clothing? Of the 3 rolled points that I have none of them have holes in the end which leads me and others to believe that they are rolled points instead of tinklers. I would love to have one however. Were tinklers a common item in the 1600's?

When I get the pics up I'd like you Josh and others to tear into them to let me know what you think they are. I would have put them up earlier but my pics are too large for the size limit and I have to figure out how to shrink them.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Here's a pic of the only metal point I have ever found. It is about 2"s long and appears to be made of rolled copper. I recovered it at the site of an Indian massacre. I know of two more whole ones and a partial that came from the same place.

 

[Wampum]

Thats exactly what I have. That was before the Indians were allowed to have or could afford flintlocks and ammo.

 

[oldgoat]

I'm wondering about places like the Fetterman massacre and the wagon box fight or the hayfield fight, they all happened in 66 or 67, before the Lakota had very many rifles...I'm thinking that you might find some there if its not restricted....goat

 

[Wampum]

 

[larson1951]

i got some in a frame
i'll try to find them and post them soon
steve

 

[larson1951]

this is what i found so far mr goat larry
the big one is sheet iron
the small'uns are copper
steve

NOTE; image 0534 is actual size

 

[olroy70]

I have been hunting points most of my life. (long time!)

The only metal point I have found was in NM. it is a steel point! I suppose they would rust in most climates.

I will dig it out, and post a pic one day!

 

[RGINN]

I never had much luck findin the metal points in Oklahoma. I found pieces of badly corroded iron that resembled an arrowhead, and due to the history of the location they probably were points. The soil in the areas I searched didn't preserve iron very well. On the other hand, I've detected out quite a few modern day metal points out in the woods.

 

[oldgoat]

Many thanks to all that answered my questions, larson, you still take the cake on your points....that long point is just great. I will say this tho, just cause they are rare doesn't mean I will stop looking for them. The quest for knowledge is a dangerous thing tho, it often leads me to places and books that upset the things I was taught as a child....but then again, maybe thats not so bad after all.....goat

 

[docmann]

OG, Here's my one contribution. Wish I could say I found it in some skull out here in Western Oklahoma. Truth is, I bought it from a collector of Sioux artifacts in the Dakotas area. As you can see, it's still attached to the tip of the arrow, but the sinew has long since decayed.

 

[11KBP]

OG, Here's my one contribution. Wish I could say I found it in some skull out here in Western Oklahoma. Truth is, I bought it from a collector of Sioux artifacts in the Dakotas area. As you can see, it's still attached to the tip of the arrow, but the sinew has long since decayed.

That is an interesting relic docman. Could you post a bigger/better pic of it?

11KBP

 

[oldgoat]

OG, Here's my one contribution. Wish I could say I found it in some skull out here in Western Oklahoma. Truth is, I bought it from a collector of Sioux artifacts in the Dakotas area. As you can see, it's still attached to the tip of the arrow, but the sinew has long since decayed.

That is an interesting relic docman. Could you post a bigger/better pic of it?

11KBP

What he said docman....thats the kinda thing I was hoping for, pics and stories. Like I said before many thanks ....goat