Is there a Long Range Locator capable of this?

[Frankn]

If you had a LRL, and were a multimillionair, I might believe they work! Otherwise, If they work, why aren't you?

 

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[woof!]

It's like holding a chopstick. In order for it to "work", the operator has to point it at the treasure. And as Mike himself explained, the operator doesn't know how to do that.

Of course if the treasure has already been located by other means, then it's possible for the operator to point the chopstick at it, but that's a rather useless exercise other than when a manufacturer is "demoing" an LRL with a known target.

There is however a way to locate gobs and gobs of treasure, and yet not make a dime on it. You point the chopstick at a spot where you don't own the property and/or where digging is impractical, and announce there's a cache of gold 40 feet down. The chopstick works just fine for the operator, and the only problem is that the treasure itself is strictly imaginary. (Rational people would regard that as a problem anyhow.) Imaginary treasure works just fine for LRL fans, it's what makes them "successful" despite objective failure.

--Toto

 

[aarthrj3811]

~Frankn~

If you had a LRL, and were a multimillionaire

No I am not a multimillionaire

I might believe they work! Otherwise, If they work, why aren't you?

That is a good question. Could it be that I am too lazy to do the necessary research or devote the time or the money for this to happen?.. Or could it be that I am having too much fun finding and recovering what I have located?.
There have been Millions of Treasure Hunting tools sold. Do we know how many of these people have become multimillionaire?..
I am just a guy who is enjoying his hobby of Treasure Hunting..If at the end of the year I have recovered and sold enough treasure to pay for my hobby I pat myself on the back..
I am enjoying my hobby as that is what a hobby is...Art
Hobby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A hobby is a regular activity or interest that is undertaken for pleasure, typically done during one's leisure time.

 

[woof!]

Mike explains it thus:

Every LRL ever made can find treasure IF the operator learns how to use it properly. Some people take longer than others to learn and most people should get some training from an instructor. Some people are never going to learn no matter what happens because they cannot overcome their negativity. Surprizingly some LRL manufacturers cannot use other equipment because they don't want it to work. ..

No distinction between an LRL and a chopstick, except that to qualify as an LRL, strictly speaking some sort of bogus electronic thing has to be added. Could tape a transistor to the chopstick, key in a magic number on a pocket calculator, claim that your cellphone energizes everything within 100 meters, or........

here's one for Vincent Blanes.......

Glue a cellphone to the chopstick, and instruct the user to dial the phone number of the target being sought!

The "Ranger-Tellyfone".

--Toto

 

[aarthrj3811]

1. 
   Originally Posted by signal_line

Every LRL ever made can find treasure IF the operator learns how to use it properly. Some people take longer than others to learn and most people should get some training from an instructor. Some people are never going to learn no matter what happens because they cannot overcome their negativity. Surprizingly some LRL manufacturers cannot use other equipment because they don't want it to work. ..

~woof~

No distinction between an LRL and a chopstick, except that to qualify as an LRL, strictly speaking some sort of bogus electronic thing has to be added. Could tape a transistor to the chopstick, key in a magic number on a pocket calculator, claim that your cellphone energizes everything within 100 meters, or........

here's one for Vincent Blanes.......

Glue a cellphone to the chopstick, and instruct the user to dial the phone number of the target being sought!

How did you happen to stumble on to something that is true. You do not need a chopstick but you do need a set of rods. Simple turn the phone on and enter 353. Do not hit the send button. Point the antenna at a piece of gold 10 feet away. Walk between the phone and the gold with the rods in the neutral position. If the rods close you may be able to use the rod type LRL’s...Could you please tell use who this Vincent Blanes guy is?..Art

 

[woof!]

What, you can't locate him with your Ranger-Tell?

--Toto

 

[signal_line]

I was thinking about religion and locating. As I have said, some dowsers believe their Guardian Angel helps them. Maybe so, but for using an MFD, well do dogs have Guardian Angels? Do dogs believe in religion? If not then it is extremely unlikely that religion is necessary to operate an MFD because I know of two dogs who can locate an MFD signal line. This might sound unbelievable, but even jack-a$$es have been known to scratch at the ground to get to water. Eat your heart out, skeptics.

I've been working on a another rod tip configuration for the Revelation Rod. This one is even more sensitive. One of these days I will try to get the camera set up for this computer.

 

[signal_line]

This tip configuration is a variation, but very similar to what I was using when I hit 100% for an entire week. This one is hot.

 

[woof!]

Mike, in a treasure hunting showdown between an atheist with a chopstick and you with your Revelation Rod with the newfangled tip, my twenty bucks is on the atheist. (BTW, if the cuss secretly "believes in God", is that cheating?)

Have fun with your rod. When it does something more useful than to lead you on a wild goose chase, let us know.

--Toto

 

[2screwed]

I'm a newb here and I have a question for Art and signal_line. The numbers that you punch into your LRL's. Do they tune it into the harmonic frequency given off by the item (gold, silver, etc.)?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The frequency would depend on how much strength the field you are exposing the gold to has. If you are just relying on the earth's magnetic field . . . 50 micro Telsas or so . . . good luck. Gold does not give off any wave energy of itself. That would be a radioactive element - which gold is not.

Geotech - Technology for Treasure Hunting


The above website has a standing reward since 2001 for someone to successfully demonstrate a Long Range Detector. They haven't paid out to a successful demonstration yet. ;-)

 

[hung]

I'm a newb here and I have a question for Art and signal_line. The numbers that you punch into your LRL's. Do they tune it into the harmonic frequency given off by the item (gold, silver, etc.)?

Yes, through resonance.
But not a single frequency. Everything in the universe and every single element or compound on Earth is comprised of several and several frequencies which make up their existence as a substance. Some frequencies are more relevant than others. So, a particular frequency is more prone to hit the target more easily if it's more relevant to the substance in question.

If a multiband transmitting aproach is used, with several relevant frequencies to that compound, chances are the element will be much more precisely detected despite the existence of heavy interferences close by.

 

[hung]

The frequency would depend on how much strength the field you are exposing the gold to has. If you are just relying on the earth's magnetic field . . . 50 micro Telsas or so . . . good luck. Gold does not give off any wave energy of itself. That would be a radioactive element - which gold is not.

This is what happens when someone chooses Choir instead of Physics to take in High School...

Geotech - Technology for Treasure Hunting
The above website has a standing reward since 2001 for someone to successfully demonstrate a Long Range Detector. They haven't paid out to a successful demonstration yet. ;-)

The above website owner, Charlie, was challenged by Mineoro inventor JP Damasio when he was alive, to demonstrate that Mineoro LRLs did not work for US$ 50,000.00. Actually the challenge was to anyone who could prove that.
I was even told and allowed by Damasio to give his personal phone number to Charlie, after the claim he was not being able to contact Mineoro by email. Despite of that, to my knowledge, he has never contacted Damasio nor any single challenger appeared to accept the challenge.

Charlie would never get to win this money anyway, as the Mineoros work as they are supposed to. They detect long time buried gold at long distance. I'm a living proof of this, since I use them.

Charlie eventually got a Mineoro FG80 and decided he would have more fun detecting electric dog fences than looking for gold.
Oh well... Some people are born lacking the competence or merit to conquer some things.
I certainly can understand that.

 

[woof!]

Hung may be ashamed to post a link to the thing, but I'm not.

METAL DETECTOR - GOLD DETECTORS MINEORO

Oddly, they think that the gizmo might be mistaken for dowsing, something that is a concern only for LRL's. Manufacturers of non-fraudulent apparatus have no such concern.

Looking at the photo, there's an accessory which looks sort of like an L-rod, but it's not quite obvious that it comprises a handle and a swivel. Maybe it actually is a dowsing rod (or intended to look sort of like one to give the thing more legitimacy as an LRL!?) but for the sake of discussion I'll assume that it is not a dowsing rod.

* * * * * * * *

The quest for legitimacy on the part of fraud gets even funnier.

The principle of VLF long range locating dates back to the 1920's and possibly earlier. Pilots used radios to "home in" on known radio transmitters from the air. Not long after, airports started installed radionavigation beacons, and manufacturers started manufacturing VLF receivers designed specifically for radio direction finding (RDF). One of the pioneers in this was Dr. Gerhard Fisher, who noticed that the beacons got thrown off in areas where there were large steel buildings or major pipelines. He figured out what was going on, shrunk the transmitter and directional receiver down to the size of hand-held apparatus, and Fisher has been building 2-box units ever since. Fisher spun off the RDF and marine communication division I think about 1970: don't know if it is still in business and if so under what name. In any case if you want to do RDF yourself as a hobby, all it takes is a $10 AM pocket radio.

Notice that the non-fraudulent stuff has been manufactured for nearly 80 years, and if you want to prove the underlying principles to yourself by actually doing it, it'll cost you $10. The pocket radio will do the same thing regardless of who holds it or what they believe about RDF'ing. Note to Signal: doesn't matter whether or not you're an atheist, these things aren't belief-in-God detectors.

It's not widely known, but they used to make specialized 2-box units for geophysical mapping, the transmitter mounted on a tripod and the receiver carried separately and equipped with tilt and angle measurement scales. There are various modern geophysical apparrattusses operating on the same basic principle. They're real, they're not "belief detectors" and fraud is not necessary.

The FG80 is made to look like a 2-box unit, and some 2-box units come equipped with a grounding rod bend into an L-shape. I suppose one could dowse with the grounding rod, but I've never heard of anyone getting confused enough to think that's what it was for. And in any case for dowsing purposes it would be inferior to a coat hanger.

The FG80 ad continues the subterfuge by having a list of "specifications". The word "bionic" in this context is the tipoff that the thing is fraudulent, and the claim of gold only without any explanation is also a tipoff that the thing is fraudulent. And the clincher is that the whole thing looks and smells like a fraud to anyone familiar with LRL's, and the manufacturer does nothing to address the issue beyond denying that it's dowsing.

So, it looks like the manufacturer and "skeptics" know the same thing about what sort of apparat the FG80 is: it's fraudulent. (Art, don't bother to read the advertisement, it doesn't work for you.)

--Toto

Note: I'll be adding more links to this to illustrate my point.

Fisher Pipe & Cable Locator Click on "view full details" for photos, including the grounding rod. This photo illustrates physical construction out of plastic, but back in the bad old days they used to make 'em with wood frames just like the FG80.

METAL DETECTOR - GOLD DETECTORS MINEORO Check 'em out. Their products go all the way from what is apparently real (and possibly pretty good) 2-box units to what is obviously a plain vanilla dowsing rod (though not described as one), and everything in between. The funniest one is what appears to be a completely ordinary 2-box unit, except in addition to what such units normally do, they add a claim that it can detect tiny gold nuggets and diamonds, which of course is a fraudulent representation. Guys like Signal who apparently know nothing about science and electronics might be excused for believing that with a little more work on that hot top, his doodlebugger might actually point on its own; however Mineoro clearly know what a 2-box unit is and how it works, and therefore their advertising claims cannot be excused on the grounds that they're simpleminded flibberdegibbets who get hopelessly confused about anything involving science or electronics. ........ Oh, yeah, the unit which appears to be their best 2-box, I didn't notice any false or misleading claims about it, but being stuck in their mix of fraudulent and real stuff, they forgot to delete their boilerplate "NOT DOWSING"! The idea that it was dowsing apparatus would never cross anyone's mind, other than that with their other products they intentionally confuse people on the matter.

Another funny: Check out the DG2005 dowsing rod ("gold only") and its gold-and-other-stuff brother. No "NOT DOWSING" boilerplate! Even in fraud, there is "truth in advertising", as I've been trying to explain to folks for 10 years now.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/tech-talk/290761-interference-10-6-khz-tesoro-silver-umax.html Example of RDF'ing and utility tracing using a commercial metal detector. ...... If you want broadband and want to go a little lower in frequency, all you have to do is buy a 100 mH RF choke, wire it up to a coax cable long enough to get it the heck away from the speaker, and plug it into a Radio Shack portable amplified speaker. And for about $20, you can locate interference sources such as power lines and electric fences. I'm not the only one who knows this, so do the engineers at Mineoro, several people have dissected Mineoro "ion detectors" and published the schematics. (The Mineoro dowsing rod which apparently contains no electronics at all is also allegedly a gold iron detector, go figure.) The published circuits reveal crude VLF receivers that detect electric fences, just as Hung explains. The 100 mH + RS receiver I built, it detected that power lines are positively surrounded by gold ions, even the overhead lines, and all I had to do was grab 'em out of the air with my hand like grabbing mosquitos, and presto! I was rich! (Aside to Hung and Art: don't try this yourself, it's all in the hand maneuver and y'all ain't got the knack, that's why mosquitos love you guys.)

http://www.geotech1.com Carl Moreland's world-famous website dedicated primarily to underground locating equipment of all kinds including "LRLs". If you want to find out what makes LRL's unique among electronic locating apparatus, it's all there. There is no debate over whether VLF metal detectors, magnetometers, resistivity apparatus, etc. are fraudulent: it's real stuff and the debate is over how well they work under what conditions and for what purposes. There is no corresponding debate in the world of LRL's: the overwhelming issue surrounding the things is their fraudulent nature. And among those who won't admit to the fraud, the debate is never couched in practical terms but around pseudoscientific gibberish, chest-pounding "I could do this, if only........" posturing, or even (as you've seen in this thread) whether or not they work for "atheists" as though they're actually religion detectors misrepresented as locating apparatus. Well, at least "misrepresented as locating apparatus" would be correct.

"Another LRL forum": not posting the link since I don't know TNet's policy regarding links to forums that might be regarded as competing with this one. (As far as I'm concerned the two forums are synergistic, not competing, but TNet might not look at it that way.) It's not on the Geotech1 site any more, it has its own URL, but with a little diligence you can get there through Geotech1. .....The LRL techies hang out there, and so do "skeptics" (i.e., people with brains having more backbone than a jellyfish), you can see LRL's dissected and schematics and plans for DIY. Heck, y'never know, half a year from now my 100 mH + RS receiver may have become the new DIY LRL craze! (Actually, there's no danger of that happening unless the inductor is installed on a swivelly thingy, because if you can't dowse with it, faking it becomes almost impossible. There's a thread there devoted to people who tried to do LRL'ing with the non-dowsing Mineoros and got real disappointed inasmuch without the swivelly thingy they couldn't blame the failure on themselves, it became painfully obvious that the equipment simply did not work and was an outright fraud. It's the only LRL where I've seen people who bought the things come out of the woodwork to admit they'd been suckered. Lesson to LRL designers: always include the swingy thingy! Otherwise how will the user allow for the possibility that maybe the thing actually works and the problem is operator error?)

http://www.mineoro.com/goldDetectors/explanations.php Mineoro explicitly states that the phenomena they claim their LRL's work on cannot be measured. They go into detail on their pseudoscience-- by first propping up the straw man to knock him down. Like I said, even in fraud there is "truth in advertising". The dreaded "skeptics" don't have to make it up, it comes straight from the LRL promoters!

http://www.mineoro.com.br
If link doesn't work, just type it into your browser window, that should fix it. Click on "Seguranca", the link it'll take you to is real but for some reason it won't link from this post. ........ It's not as though they are mystified by the real stuff and therefore have nothing to go on but pseudoscience: lo and behold, they're a metal detector manufacturer! In addition to what you find on their security stuff site, they also advertise a regular hobby metal detector (which they describe as being like a military mine detector) that appears to be an approx. 30-40 year old design but metal detectors worked back then so this one probably does, too. ......Now since it's obvious that any metal detector manufacturer could also manufacture LRL's, the question is, "why don't they?" Well, because most beep makers don't want to contaminate their real stuff with fraudulent stuff. Does Mineoro understand this same principle? Yep, it's just as the dreaded skeptics say! The security business has its own website, and you don't have to know they're in the LRL business if you'd rather not know (although in Latin American culture there is more tolerance for fraud than in Anglo culture). Not nearly so bold as OKM who gladly mix the real with the bogus on the same home page, and as reported in another thread, when the OKM engineers are asked in person about the LRL's all of a sudden they just ain't gonna step in that pile. They know, we all know. Does Hung the Mineoro expert know? Yep! Far be it from me to say "don't read his posts", I say do by all means read his posts! You (if you're not Art) can learn the same thing from him as you do from me, he just happens to word it differently.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

This is what happens when someone chooses Choir instead of Physics to take in High School...

I took physics in high school as well as college level. The ONLY way to get a detectable emission from a nonradioactive element is to bombard it with something energetic - light, heat, sound, etc. Even if gold did have a natural resonance the likelyhood atoms within the matrix were out of phase and nullifying any net "emission" would be high.

But I am prepared to be astounded by your disclosure of finds using hukum, er, long range detecting apparatus.

 

[woof!]

Charlie P., Hung may be new to you but to some of the rest of us he's pretty familiar. In his fantasy world, physics is whatever he imagines it to be, and if you aren't in his fantasy world, well, you got left at the station when his train chugged off. Count your blessings!

Mike (Signal) also has a fantasy world where whatever you imagine, really is, except Mike is too clueless to invent a good pseudoscience word salad so he substitutes a pseudoreligious pseudophilosophical pseudomoralistic word salad. Peculiarly his own, though sometimes I think I smell a bit of Kentucky Kache in there.

Now that Geotech link you posted to the essay on "molecular frequencies"-- that was pretty good science, the foundation that engineers use to build stuff that works. It's just natural that someone like Hung would hate the whole thing, and even try to trick guys like Art into believing that Hung's fantasies are real physics and that the essay in question was not even what's taught in formal education. Thus does Hung yet again reveal that he has nothing whatsoever to offer the field of long range locating other than alabis, misrepresentation, and another word we all know but I'm probably not allowed to say it here.

If after his posts, someone still wants to go out and buy a Mineoro, I say let justice begin! Buy the damn thing and either you will learn the hard way, or will go into deep denial and become a shame to everyone who knows you.

All this LRL stuff, it's not really about science, that's just a smokescreen created by the LRL proponents. It's about fraud, how fraudsters operate, and how people fall victims to fraud. It's a great place to do sociological and psychological research because the study subjects don't cost the researcher anything and you can usually count on them to show up at the right time.

--Toto

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Gotcha. My bachelor's degree is in science, but Human Behavior and not Physics. I also have an Accounting Degree, so I know when an investment is a "sunk cost" and not likely to bear fruit.

I'll go back to the coin shooting threads. ;-)

 

[woof!]

In Human Behavior? By all means, stick around! Need a Master's thesis? The raw material is right here.

--Toto

[edit] Back in the olden days of the previous (discontinued and evidently not archived) Tnet LRL & dowsing forum, I used to say something like "understand dowsing and understand the whole thing", including LRL'ing in the word "dowsing" and referring to the sociology and psychology of how delusions are created and controlled and the world is thereby governed.

I have dowsed successfully, reasoned through it scientifically as far as I could take it, and therefore am not one of those people who say that all dowsing is delusional. However, reading the dowsing forum, it's not hard to arrive at the conclusion that a good 95% of it is people who simply can't reason through what is happening, and they're getting pumped up by people who have a lot of fantasies about it because they couldn't reason through it either and still can't. Undoubtedly there's some outright fakery too, but the big picture is just people who can't tell the difference between success and failure, therfore they make up a lot of alabis to explain why what looks like failure is actually success. It's quite like listening to gambler talk, the vast majority of gamblers being losers but don't even know it.

LRL's are a whole different world, because the apparatus has bogus electronics attached, and the stuff is represented as being of a scientifically engineered nature, not dowsing. Either that, or no actual performance claims are made, but the whole thing is presented in such a fashion that the gullibilly weaves claims in his own mind out of the raw material of words and pictures provided by the manufacturer for the purpose of inducing those delusions. Either way, what LRL's have in common is fraud on the part of the manufacturers. It is because the common factor in LRL's is outright fraud, that on LRL forums the proponents post all kinds of malarkey such that usually you can't even tell what their story is supposed to be, for the simple reason that any story that is identifiable from their narrative can be used against them.

Case in point: Hung and Mineoro. Hung ain't about to post a bunch of information on Mineoro, because that becomes evidence against him. So it was left to me to post the info.

Another case in point: Signal, he started posting about 3-4 pages back, and everything he posted was so evasive and irrelevant to the subject matter that it was left to me to name his Revelation Rod, and rather than thank me he went off the deep end. He isn't willing to make a case that his gizmo works better than a chopstick, and even disses his own product by saying he's finally working on the one with the super duper tip, using metaphors so phallic you wonder if he forgot which industry he's trying to script the story for.

As I often say, "read the advertisement". They know they ain't got squat, and they know the Miranda warning: "anything you say can be used against you". If you've been running a con game the whole time, everything you say better be incoherent irrelevant gibberish so you can impress your gullibilly fans while not providing a story that proves fraud. It's all "you can't pin anything on me!" The fallacy of that reasoning is that the maneuver itself is the damning evidence: manufacturers of products that aren't fraudulent want you to know what their product is.

--Toto

 

[aarthrj3811]

~woof~

Another case in point: Signal, he started posting about 3-4 pages back, and everything he posted was so evasive and irrelevant to the subject matter that it was left to me to name his Revelation Rod, and rather than thank me he went off the deep end. He isn't willing to make a case that his gizmo works better than a chopstick, and even disses his own product by saying he's finally working on the one with the super duper tip, using metaphors so phallic you wonder if he forgot which industry he's trying to script the story for.

As I often say, "read the advertisement". They know they ain't got squat, and they know the Miranda warning: "anything you say can be used against you". If you've been running a con game the whole time, everything you say better be incoherent irrelevant gibberish so you can impress your gullibilly fans while not providing a story that proves fraud. It's all "you can't pin anything on me!" The fallacy of that reasoning is that the maneuver itself is the damning evidence: manufacturers of products that aren't fraudulent want you to know what their product is

.

Thank You again woof...Sorry you thought that Mikes post was so evasive and irrelevant to the subject matter that it was left to you to name his Revelation Rod. So much for promoting a LRL on this board.
Thank You again for the advertisement since that is all you know...Art

 

[hung]

My bachelor's degree is in science, but Human Behavior and not Physics.

Ah, ok.
You're forgiven.

I'll go back to the coin shooting threads. ;-)

Wise decision. Send regards to the floor polisher users.