Why We Feel The Need To Defend the 2nd Amendent

[Treasure_Hunter]

.............And some wonder why we feel the need to retain the right to bear arms....

 

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[jeff of pa]

Curiosity since I rarely watch news.

Has the prez openly ordered an american killed , that this question was asked ?

or was this asked simply to get an answer ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Curiosity since I rarely watch news.

Has the prez openly ordered an american killed , that this question was asked ?

or was this asked simply to get an answer ?

Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr has said the President has the authority to authorize killing Americans overseas if they feel they are a threat.... Point there is who decides if they are a threat, since there is no one overseeing it, Holder is saying President can kill any american based on what?

FBI director was asked does this same rule apply to Americans in this country? His reply was I don't know I will have to check... (Translated it means yes but I have to see what the boss says first). We have due process in this country, his reply should have been NO....

 

[Gold Maven]

Atty. Gen. Eric H. Holder Jr has said the President has the authority to authorize killing Americans overseas if they feel they are a threat.... Point there is who decides if they are a threat, since there is no one overseeing it, Holder is saying President can kill any american based on what?

FBI director was asked does this same rule apply to Americans in this country? His reply was I don't know I will have to check... (Translated it means yes but I have to see what the boss says first). We have due process in this country, his reply should have been NO....

We have due process unless "they" believe you might be a terrorist. Then you can be detained indefinitely without being charged with a crime, and no legal counsel. Indefinitely....that's a long time. Our rights dissolving in the name of terror....that scares me mare than any terrorist ever could.

 

[dieselram94]

When has this president ever conformed to any rule?

 

[Red James Cash]

When has this president ever conformed to any rule?

As far as I know he hasnt.Three U.S, citizens have already been killed by his drone attacks,overseas, without due process.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

As far as I know he hasnt.Three U.S, citizens have already been killed by his drone attacks,overseas, without due process.

Was that by accident or from direct orders? (by 'direct order' I mean, order to purposely take out an U.S. citizen)
Link please.

During 9/11, the plane that went down, was it not being shadowed, and were them fighter pilots not told, they should fire upon that plane if......?
Don't make it right, but........ where does one draw the line at? Who would one trust to make those types of decisions?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Was that by accident or from direct orders? (by 'direct order' I mean, order to purposely take out an U.S. citizen)
Link please.

During 9/11, the plane that went down, was it not being shadowed, and were them fighter pilots not told, they should fire upon that plane if......?
Don't make it right, but........ where does one draw the line at? Who would one trust to make those types of decisions?

"DOG"...?

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

"DOG"...?

Now that you got me laughing, thanks for that!

Actually, I would like an answer to the question, as, was there ever a direct order to fire onto our U.S, soldiers?
That is, if anyone knows the answer.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now that you got me laughing, thanks for that!

YW... LOL!

 

[Chadeaux]

Curiosity since I rarely watch news.

Has the prez openly ordered an american killed , that this question was asked ?

or was this asked simply to get an answer ?

Hi Jeff.

The problem is with the decision being made by the guy in the White House, WITHOUT due process . . . namely proving before a judge and jury that the individual has committed a crime worthy of depriving him/her of life as retribution. All U.S. Citizens have this right, but an end around the constitution has been attempted and acted upon in violation of the laws of the land.

What laws?

The Constitution IS the law of the land. Our legislators are supposed to enact laws within the framework of that document. It is our law.

Our Judges are not there to create laws but rather to decide on the constitutionality of the laws passed by our legislators.

The executive branch does not have the authority to make laws or decide on the constitutionality of laws passed by our legislators. The job of the executive branch is to ensure that the laws and thus the constitution are upheld -- enforcement to some extent -- and to direct the country. He can propose new laws, direct the legislators on what he wants them to consider.

Unfortunately, this group want a king rather than a president. What's his name is acting as though he thinks he is a king rather than the Chief Executive of this country.

 

[AdDicted2Ag]

Wow.. I really don't even have words for this..

 

[Red James Cash]

Best start looking around yourself with a clear head AdDicted2Ag,you,your families and your friends could be depending on it.

 

[bwatts]

Best start looking around yourself with a clear head AdDicted2Ag,you,your families and your friends could be depending on it.

Hi all,
Just a newbie to this thread here, recently retired and looking for a way to fill my copius spare time once i catch up to all the "honey do's". Have read almost all of what has been posted and just thought that I woud throw in a little bit of reference from my past. In 1998 or thereabout, I was stationed at Alameda Navel Air Station across from San Francisco. We were converting the base to Civilian use and I was living on the base in one of the ex-military houses. One weekend, I went to a Estate sale up near Berkely and bought a whole box of books for about $4.00 as I remember. In the box, when i got it home was a book printed by the United Nations under the auspicies of what I remember as the International Socialist League.

Out of boredom I sat down one night and started reading the book and it was a blueprint for turnig the United States Socialist. One of the things that i most remember aside from subversion of the Police, Schools, media and eventually the military was the comment that in order for this to suceed, the United States had to be brought to it's knees. the reasoning was that there was no way to raise the rest of the world up to our level, so the agenda was to bring down the U.S. to the rest of the world's level.

I wish I could find it again, but i have it packed away in one of our boxes somewhere since I can see this happening while I am watching. Take a good look around, it happening as we speak!

BW

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

bwatts, I can see the logic in what that book was saying, in regards to, "we will never bring other countries up to our level, U.S. would have to be taken down". That's not me saying I agree, I just see their twisted logic. Would be nice if you could find that book.

This brings me to another issue, of, who does our personel actually serve under, as in the case of Micheal New(was that his name?)?
His court martial and appeal is still ongoing. (Years he will never get back, that would possibly be a whole nother thread, though).

eta: yeah that was his name. If under U.N. orders, would a soldier have to follow orders to shoot an American citizen or fellow troops?
http://www.jefflindsay.com/MichaelNew.shtml

 

[jeff of pa]

Hi Jeff.

The problem is with the decision being made by the guy in the White House, WITHOUT due process . . . namely proving before a judge and jury that the individual has committed a crime worthy of depriving him/her of life as retribution. All U.S. Citizens have this right, but an end around the constitution has been attempted and acted upon in violation of the laws of the land.

What laws?

The Constitution IS the law of the land. Our legislators are supposed to enact laws within the framework of that document. It is our law.

Our Judges are not there to create laws but rather to decide on the constitutionality of the laws passed by our legislators.

The executive branch does not have the authority to make laws or decide on the constitutionality of laws passed by our legislators. The job of the executive branch is to ensure that the laws and thus the constitution are upheld -- enforcement to some extent -- and to direct the country. He can propose new laws, direct the legislators on what he wants them to consider.

Unfortunately, this group want a king rather than a president. What's his name is acting as though he thinks he is a king rather than the Chief Executive of this country.

I know some are not going to like my thoughts,
but they are My thoughts

Where does Area 51 & the signs that at least used to warn of Deadly force fit In ?

Where does "I saw him on my neighbors Property so I shot him" fit in ?

although there is no way to know if anyone was ever killed
in area 51, and the signs appear to have changed, to fines & imprisonment .

how does Due Process work for "deadly Force" & the dead ?

I'm not disagreeing .
I don't think the "Prezedent of oz" has a right to say "Kill him" about anyone in particular.
u.s. citizen or someone hiding in a cave in jabip.
as a country claiming to be better then everyone else, we need to prove it.

But seriously, was there ever absolute "due Process" in the u.s. ?

 

[Chadeaux]

Hi all,
Just a newbie to this thread here, recently retired and looking for a way to fill my copius spare time once i catch up to all the "honey do's". Have read almost all of what has been posted and just thought that I woud throw in a little bit of reference from my past. In 1998 or thereabout, I was stationed at Alameda Navel Air Station across from San Francisco. We were converting the base to Civilian use and I was living on the base in one of the ex-military houses. One weekend, I went to a Estate sale up near Berkely and bought a whole box of books for about $4.00 as I remember. In the box, when i got it home was a book printed by the United Nations under the auspicies of what I remember as the International Socialist League.

Out of boredom I sat down one night and started reading the book and it was a blueprint for turnig the United States Socialist. One of the things that i most remember aside from subversion of the Police, Schools, media and eventually the military was the comment that in order for this to suceed, the United States had to be brought to it's knees. the reasoning was that there was no way to raise the rest of the world up to our level, so the agenda was to bring down the U.S. to the rest of the world's level.

I wish I could find it again, but i have it packed away in one of our boxes somewhere since I can see this happening while I am watching. Take a good look around, it happening as we speak!

BW

Was the name: "Raising the Red Flag"?

 

[Chadeaux]

I know some are not going to like my thoughts,
but they are My thoughts

Where does Area 51 & the signs that at least used to warn of Deadly force fit In ?

Where does "I saw him on my neighbors Property so I shot him" fit in ?

although there is no way to know if anyone was ever killed
in area 51, and the signs appear to have changed, to fines & imprisonment .

how does Due Process work for "deadly Force" & the dead ?

I'm not disagreeing .
I don't think the "Prezedent of oz" has a right to say "Kill him" about anyone in particular.
u.s. citizen or someone hiding in a cave in jabip.
as a country claiming to be better then everyone else, we need to prove it.

But seriously, was there ever absolute "due Process" in the u.s. ?

Well, just the fact that you are on the property after being warned that death was a possibility would show a violation of the law. That it warns of deadly force does not always mean that it will be used. It depends on the individual and how they react when confronted. I've seen video that showed people entering area 51 as well. Some were caught, but none were killed. Why? Not because they were recording but because they were non hostile trespassers. Hostility would have been met with the same or greater force. Because they were warned, knew they were breaking the law and could not have been where they were without breaking the law, their actions are what kept them from being killed. Military bases must be protected by all means necessary.

Due process is what happens when you are charged, prosecuted in court and then either declared innocent or guilty. I can't answer how it works for the folks that guy in DC has killed with drones, but on the other hand, dead men tell no tales.

Your rights are being eaten away. If you are in the process of committing a crime, and the officer or citizen you are violating feels threatened they have a right to protect themselves. Then THEY face a jury of their peers to determine if they had reason to deprive that person (in the heat of the moment) of life.

With that guy, we are talking about premeditated murder. Much like Joe Blow deciding to take out his ex . . . except that guy in DC is doing it without fear of reprisal because he's attempting to write the rules as he goes along. Doesn't that sound fair? Wouldn't you like to do that when you gamble --- make up new rules as you go along so that you always win?

 

[Bayoutalker]

What bothers me is all of these "executive orders" he keeps signing. That is just a way to bypass the Constitution's balance of powers. He really thinks he is above the law and Congress is letting him get away with it.

Cliff

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ppl killed by drones are not US citizens... in time of WAR; remember 9l11...?